And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.

[rwc101]

that being said, I keep seeing “opportunity for residents”. Come on out to Ohio. For less than $300 you can go hunt as much as you want on our limited public land. You’ll see a big reason why some travel to hunt out west.

One day I'll make it out there to hunt the Wayne where my dad shot his 10 point years ago. I wish there was more public land/access advocacy out east. People acted like driving out to the national forest was unfathomable and that the quality was chopped liver growing up in NC and VA.

 

[TheJason]

We should certainly do a better job being empathetic with Buzz. He's a great resource and great guy to have in the game

Yes he is. I think more than a few folks could step back, take a breath and depersonalize the issue a bit.

 

[Four22]

One day I'll make it out there to hunt the Wayne where my dad shot his 10 point years ago. I wish there was more public land/access advocacy out east. People acted like driving out to the national forest was unfathomable and that the quality was chopped liver growing up in NC and VA.

I wish the state would manage the heard rather than keeping state deer numbers down by hammering the rural areas.

Another issue is access. You’re HARD PRESSED to get permission to even breath on anyone’s land let alone set foot on it

 

[Wildabeest]

All I can do is compare NR hunting prices in the 1970's to what they are now in regard to US median household income.

Part of the problem with this rationalization is that “average Joe” is not necessarily “median Joe”. Wealth distribution has changed drastically since the 70’s to where wealth is much more highly concentrated at the top, and you have proportionally a lot more people at the bottom. So “average Joe” likely lives far on the left side of that spectrum. And before the stats experts start lambasting me over the definition of average/mean vs. median, I’ll concede that “average” is not the statistically correct term for Joe. I think the better definition of Joe is a blue collar worker, generally living in more rural vs. urban environments. If so, then Joe’s standard of living and income has definitely been well behind the overall economic growth of the nation which has primarily benefitted urban and suburban white collar folks. So if we are truly trying to look out for Joe here, comparing nationwide median income is IMO not the right measure to use. Statistically, we should be looking at “median Joe hunter”, which is the median income for families that include someone who hunts. I don’t have that number, but IMO you’d see very different results for his income progression as compared to tag prices than comparing it to the population as a whole.

And since I’ve finally decided to jump into the fray on this one, just a couple of other thoughts...

I’m not overly opposed to this bill. I think WY is fully in their rights to increase prices and change the allocation. Especially if they are getting more in line with other western states by doing it. So I agree with Buzz on that. What I don’t agree with, though, is the “F*ck you!” attitude that seems fairly pervasive in this thread. Residents need to understand that for years WY has been selling preference points to NR with expectations that the system is configured a certain way. Those point fees have partially allowed resident license fees to remain low and still fund the management of the state’s wildlife. Now we are changing the rules, so it’s only natural that people who’ve invested years of effort and money buying points are going to be upset. Did they enter into the game knowing the rules might change? Probably. Does WY have the right to change the rules at their sole discretion? Yup. But I can definitely see how it would feel like a bait and switch on the other side of it. So let’s have a little compassion and empathy, and allow people to vent their frustrations. There doesn’t have to be a single right answer here. Unfortunately, the timing of this combined with many other things that have been brewing across the west for years, feels like just one more baby step away from the foundation principles of the NAM. I don’t think people are just venting about WY here, but rather are equally venting about the continued demise of the basic principles of the NAM across the country. There’s just no easy answers when demand far exceeds supply, which is then further complicated by the costs associated with managing that resource. Throw in politics and you have a perfect recipe for lots of bad options.

 

[cahunter805]

From an email I received:
We need your help to contact members of the Senate Travel, Recreation and Wildlife Committee as soon as possible to share your opposition to the bill and how it would impact your ability to hunt in Wyoming. The bill will be heard by the committee at 8 a.m. on Thursday, March 4, 2021.

Please keep your messages focused and specific to how this appalling bill will hurt your future plans to hunt in Wyoming. Please let the senators know that you have made a financial investment in preference points and license fees and remind the Senators of the positive economic impact nonresident hunters, like yourself, brings to Wyoming.

Thank you for taking the time to reach out to these Wyoming Legislators it is critical they hear from you and how a 50 percent reduction in licenses would affect your ability to hunt and Wyoming’s economy.

The Senators are listed below:

Chairwoman Affie Ellis (Cheyenne) [email protected]
Senator Mike Gierau (Jackson) [email protected]
Senator Tim Salazar (Dubois) [email protected]
Senator Bill Landen (Casper) [email protected]
Senator Wendy Schuler (Evantson) [email protected]

That email was sent by Sy and WOGA. Pretty hypocritical as they are responsible for WY wilderness rule, NR early elk application date. I do hope they can stop the bill though. The 90/10 for OIL tags I agree with. Leave all others as is and I personally like the regular vs Special pools.

 

[rwc101]

I wish the state would manage the heard rather than keeping state deer numbers down by hammering the rural areas.

Another issue is access. You’re HARD PRESSED to get permission to even breath on anyone’s land let alone set foot on it

This is the common refrain throughout the east. I'm not sure why more advocacy for public access projects doesn't get done. Wyoming has more public land than you can shake a stick at and we're almost certainly raising our conservation stamp price to fund more access to private land through Access Yes.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Yes he is. I think more than a few folks could step back, take a breath and depersonalize the issue a bit.

This statement reminds me of when the farmer talks to his cows to calm them down, telling them everything is going to be fine right before cutting their throats and throwing them on the grill.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

I feel like th

Really all that needs to be said...

And if anything, I think Wyoming Residents made a huge mistake being so generous for so long in regard to NR hunting opportunity. Somehow its all up to Wyoming's generosity to expose every swinging NR Johnson to hunting and create public land advocates. When did that burden fall on Wyoming?

We should have tightened things up 20 years ago before the entitlement was so rampant and out of control.

I feel like that burden (if it exists at all) falls more squarely on Colorado than Wyoming. Colorado exposes more NR to western hunting than any other state.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes he is. I think more than a few folks could step back, take a breath and depersonalize the issue a bit.

What fun is there in that?

Broad shoulders, thick hide...bring it.

 

[BuzzH]

I feel like th

I feel like that burden (if it exists at all) falls more squarely on Colorado than Wyoming. Colorado exposes more NR to western hunting than any other state.

Oh for sure, Colorado has the same exact problem of having been way too generous for way too long to NR's.

Entitlement attitude there too.

 

[Dougfirtree]

One day I'll make it out there to hunt the Wayne where my dad shot his 10 point years ago. I wish there was more public land/access advocacy out east. People acted like driving out to the national forest was unfathomable and that the quality was chopped liver growing up in NC and VA.

I wish the east was more on-board with access programs that give private landowners incentives to allow public hunting. They could be a real game changer here. There are lots of deer in most of the east, access is the larger issue.

And in some places, there's lots of public land. I'm surrounded by millions of acres of public land that is open to hunting. More than I could ever take advantage of. But it's tough hunting.

This easterner can relate to how Wyoming residents may be feeling. I don't feel it around hunting (no one in their right minds comes to the Adirondacks to hunt, unless the landscape is the primary quarry), but I do around other activities. Like Wyomingites, I chose to live in a place that is beautiful, but not easy to make a living. I've made sacrifices in terms of salary, available services and culture, brutal winters, etc. in order to have good access to wild lands that are so important to me. It was tough, this past summer, to say, "I think I'll go for a hike on this beautiful day" and literally not be able to find a parking spot at a trailhead because so many people from NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. were here eagerly gobbling up the opportunity. It makes you think that your connection to the place should be worth something in terms of opportunity to enjoy the resource. I get it. And I also know, all the time, that our economy here and the stability of our protected lands depends on those people and that it's vital that they come.

 

[rwc101]

I wish the east was more on-board with access programs that give private landowners incentives to allow public hunting. They could be a real game changer here. There are lots of deer in most of the east, access is the larger issue.

And in some places, there's lots of public land. I'm surrounded by millions of acres of public land that is open to hunting. More than I could ever take advantage of. But it's tough hunting.

This easterner can relate to how Wyoming residents may be feeling. I don't feel it around hunting (no one in their right minds comes to the Adirondacks to hunt, unless the landscape is the primary quarry), but I do around other activities. Like Wyomingites, I chose to live in a place that is beautiful, but not easy to make a living. I've made sacrifices in terms of salary, available services and culture, brutal winters, etc. in order to have good access to wild lands that are so important to me. It was tough, this past summer, to say, "I think I'll go for a hike on this beautiful day" and literally not be able to find a parking spot at a trailhead because so many people from NYC, Boston, Philly, etc. were here eagerly gobbling up the opportunity. It makes you think that your connection to the place should be worth something in terms of opportunity to enjoy the resource. I get it. And I also know, all the time, that our economy here and the stability of our protected lands depends on those people and that it's vital that they come.

I agree with every word of that.

 

[Pahoundsman]

I’ve read every post on every page and it gives a man a lot to think about. I understand what WY is doing,although I can’t say I like it. The eastern hunters definitely have issues with low deer densities on state land and NF and that is the biggest reason most of us head west in the fall. We have elk here in PA but a better chance at hitting the power ball than drawing a tag. No mule deer or antelope,so our options are few. I have points in several western states and will continue to play the point game, I may have to change the direction I was headed but so be it. I’ll still hunt in Wyoming just not as often and wi a general tag instead,but I’ll still be hunting. Will the price increase affect me? No, but it will my 2 sons that are raising their own children now. Wyoming has been a place of great memories for me and my boys. I think every NR should accept that this is inevitable and hope Colorado waits a few years before they follow suit.

 

[Derek44]

Well the obvious solution is for us to just move to Wyoming and buy resident licenses.

Anyone want to go in on a house there? I'm positive we can find a deal on a dump somewhere that used to produce oil.

I’m in!!!!

 

[Irrelevant]

I didn't ask for anyone spending habits or personal finances.

But, if you believe that a household earning 16K a year in 1979 didn't have to make choices, sacrifice other discretionary income to afford a $225 NR Montana elk/deer tag...and now its a burden to expect a household making 68K a year in 2021 to have to do the same exact thing for a $1k NR deer/elk combo and 1/10th of 1 percent increase is the straw that broke the camels back...yeah, I'm done here as well.

@MTTW addressed this very well.

Non-resident Hunting and the North American Model

In my opinion the thing that prices out the little guy is loss of access to game, big and small in their own back yard. I graduated high school in 1980 and have an uncut resident elk tag from that year that cost $8. We lived in a 2 bedroom house that we rented for $200 per month in 1978. My mom...

www.hunttalk.com

You used to be able to buy a house for the approximately annual salary. I know that's what my parents were looking at. My small 3 bed home cost 4x my annual salary and I feel like I make a shit pile of money.

 

[3darcher2]

All I can do is compare NR hunting prices in the 1970's to what they are now in regard to US median household income.

I'll concede that a NR license in Montana has increased by 1/10th of one percent of US mean household income.

You win if you also concede it was a rich mans game and out of reach for NR commoner average hunters even in the late 70's.

You just happened to cherry pick the one example that supports your stance. By picking one state and one time period, then choosing a number like MHI. I don’t care enough to go look at a million statistical categories because none of them would matter to you anyway. And license costs from the ‘70s are readily available.

If the WY general tag goes to $1100, it will have increased basically 100% from 2013 when the tag fee was right around 550 or 560. US inflation has gone up 12.3% in that’s same time. Those are my stats.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

 

[BuzzH]

You just happened to cherry pick the one example that supports your stance. By picking one state and one time period, then choosing a number like MHI. I don’t care enough to go look at a million statistical categories because none of them would matter to you anyway. And license costs from the ‘70s are readily available.

If the WY general tag goes to $1100, it will have increased basically 100% from 2013 when the tag fee was right around 550 or 560. US inflation has gone up 12.3% in that’s same time. Those are my stats.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

No I didnt cherry pick anything, I picked Montana because:

1. That's where I started hunting.

2. I happened to have a set of hunting orders available that lists the price of deer/elk combo from the very year I began hunting there.

3. Basing it on MHI was also a readily available statistic.

Feel free to use any stat's you like...or not.

Here's a statistic for you...between my wife and I, we are allowed 30 total tags for deer, elk, and pronghorn as Wyoming Residents. I haven't held a doe pronghorn tag since 2012 even longer than that for a doe deer. My wife has never held a doe pronghorn, a doe deer tag, a second buck deer or pronghorn buck tag, or her 3 elk tags a year she can get in 20 years.

Not ever again will we leave another opportunity at a tag on the table....its 15 tags each from now on.

 

[Wildabeest]

 

[BuzzH]

Wait for the photo after mid July...this one will be child's play in comparison.

 

[Bullshot]

Wait for the photo after mid July...this one will be child's play in comparison.

If you can eat all that, 100% more power to you. Otherwise with 30 tags annually maybe you just really, really, REALLY like to kill stuff. i am not suggesting any of it goes to waste by you (I know it doesn't) but am honestly wondering what the heck you do with it all. I still have some 2018 muley, 2019 elk, 2020 muley, 2020 antelope and probably some 2018 whitetail in the freezer. Just finished my third gobbler from last spring and season starts again next month.