I bet it ain't no accident. mtmuley
A Difficult Conversation
- Thread starter JLS
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I suspect you are correct to some degree.
I was a guest on the Urban Archer NYC podcast last week. Was it coincidence? Nope. Cliff Cadet, the host and hunter, who happens to be a black, saw the comments on my IG when I posted a black screen on June 2nd. He saw me engaging with the audience. He had followed me in the past, but we had never connected. He jumped in on those IG discussions, engaging with the audience from the perspective of a black urban male who hunted. It took a lot of people off guard the way he presented himself. He contacted me afterward and asked if I would be on his podcast. I understood some would have the immediate response that I did this because of the events since the George Floyd death, but I agreed. Yeah, the George Floyd event and the following weeks of tension did bring Cliff and I together. It wasn't by accident.
Glad I did that with Cliff. Link here - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/when-the-hunt-calls/id1497160704
Recently, there was a thread on Hunt Talk about another black hunter who was on the Nine Fingers Chronicle podcast, Arlando Chiles. He was then on the Gritty podcast. The topic of me and Arlando communicating over the last two years came up in both podcasts.
Arlando came to Montana bear hunting in May, but due to COVID, we couldn't get together for a visit. A couple weeks later, the George Floyd event blew up. I did a podcast with Arlando last week, knowing full well that many will say I am just pandering, having the token black hunter on my podcast because of all that is/was going on. Would they have viewed it any differently if we had been able to meet in May before the George Floyd event? Not sure.
In spite of those who don't know the real gig, I'm going forward with releasing it and will take the anticipated comments for what they are. I'm surely not going to ignore a person who I've been communicating with the last two years, just because we have a lot of tensions in our country surrounding the issue of race. That he happens to be a black hunter who has an interesting story of how he found his way to hunting and how he is using hunting to help in his community, makes it even more compelling during these times.
Similar to the question about Meateater, "Did these two podcasts, one on which I'm a guest and one I am a host, happen by accident?" Not really.
But, nothing I do is by accident. I want to push discussions. I want to be uncomfortable in my confidence that my view of the world has it all figured out. Having these discussions helps me think harder of my life experiences that have formed my world view, especially when I compare them to folks who have a way different life experience, yet we both ended up at the same end point when it comes to our love of wild things, wild places, and hunting. I won't quit having these discussions offline or online, due to the amplified tone of the current times that might put me at higher risk or more discomfort.
I've not listened to this Meateater podcast. Maybe my road time home tomorrow will be a good time to do it. Whether it was or wasn't by accident, I'm interested in these discussions.
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Addicting
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In the Griddy podcast he talks about his admiration for you and how it started back in 2016. I’m looking forward to listening to your conversation with him.
One of the thoughts I had after listening to them both is I hope he takes the road she did and stays an ambassador for the outdoors. 4 years into it this new revelation of the outdoors he is still wet behind the ears. Sometimes we jump in with both feet to something new that we are excited about. Only to have the drive fade away as we ADHD on a new project.
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MTLabrador
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According to Steve he had the podcast planned in April before COVID delayed it. It was a very good listen.
Gerald Martin
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To me, engaging in conversations with people who have a relevant perspective on a timely topic only makes good sense.
It’s only exploitive if whoever hosts the platform co-opts or twists the message of the person they are engaging to push their own agenda at the expense of their guest.
It’s only exploitive if whoever hosts the platform co-opts or twists the message of the person they are engaging to push their own agenda at the expense of their guest.
bullbugle307
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One thing I wondered about is how she differentiates between race and other factors like being a woman in how people act towards her while out on public lands.
Some people undoubtedly act differently because she's black. Some people act differently because she's a woman. (My wife experiences this when she's out without me).
Some people just aren't friendly, or are overly in your business. It must be difficult though not knowing the reason and wondering if it's because she's black, or if it's because they aren't used to seeing a woman out enjoying public lands by herself. It did make me wonder if she attributes normal feelings of people not being friendly to race or gender when sometimes those are just run of the mill interactions that all people have.
Not doubting she's treated differently for a number of reasons, I'm sure she is, but I would think it would be difficult to know why a person acts the way they do.
Some people undoubtedly act differently because she's black. Some people act differently because she's a woman. (My wife experiences this when she's out without me).
Some people just aren't friendly, or are overly in your business. It must be difficult though not knowing the reason and wondering if it's because she's black, or if it's because they aren't used to seeing a woman out enjoying public lands by herself. It did make me wonder if she attributes normal feelings of people not being friendly to race or gender when sometimes those are just run of the mill interactions that all people have.
Not doubting she's treated differently for a number of reasons, I'm sure she is, but I would think it would be difficult to know why a person acts the way they do.
seeth07
Well-known member
I was wondering kind of the same thing. She no doubt probably has been in life situations where this is the case and then when taking that over to the public land hunting realm, does she just assume it's the same? I would like to think that in the public land hunting world it's not quite the same.
We all have positive and negative reactions when on public land. Some people really upset you with their public land use etiquette and some people really impress you. I don't think your race or gender really applies to these reactions especially since you're usually viewing them from afar or you only see the aftermath of the reaction (ie trash left behind).
Not sure how others react when seeing a woman at the trailhead but given I only hunt pretty much with my wife, we are ecstatic and actually more willing to share info and help out than say if Mr. Grumpy mtmuley was at that same trailhead. Growing up across the street from a predominately black neighbor, I also feel the same way if I were to see an African American at the trail head given how I know how difficult it was for my childhood black friends to be able to experience the outdoors.
bullbugle307
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If the agenda ain't a bad one, what's the problem? Do you think having a more diverse base of users and advocates for public lands is a bad thing? If so, why. If not, again, I don't see what the problem is.
D
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BTW here is the video she references... sorry for the FB link I couldn't find it on youtube
Her comments resonated with me, simply because of how many people go out of their way to comment on Gus while were hiking. "OMG those little legs, I can't believe he hikes", "Can I get a picture with your dog"... etc etc.. at this point my wife and I are so sick of it we must come off as huge dicks because we just walk past people with no response.
Similarly, I killed a buck behind a ski town last year and packed it out at noon, on a Saturday... yeah maybe not the best planning. Anyway I was flabbergasted by the number of people who straight up blocked the trail, and were like "So you're hunting, I know a person that hunts, let's talk about that... meanwhile I have a 100lb pack, trying not to blow a knee and am trying to get my meat off the hill before it spoils."
I think hunters as a group are the kinda folks who aren't going to waylay you on a trail so this idea seem totally foreign to us, but I 100% believe, some Karen on some trail in RMNP would actually stop Rue on a trail with, "Oh my gosh you're black, and hiking, thats so great for you, you know I have lots of black friends".
I'm sure there are some reactions that to your point would be hard to prove are because she is black or a woman or whatever, but I'm sure there are some that aren't.
Well spoken.
Had a conversation with my daughter the other day. She wanted to continue a course she excels in because (to avoid) the underlying fear to enter a course she feared would not receive the accolades for great success. 16yo, HS electives - her world drama.
I've listened to Brene Brown's, Daring Greatly audiobook a few times and found a favorite exerpt on YouTube that sums it up...
My daughter and I watched it together and, a couple days later she empowered herself to roll into the more challenging elective. Moral of the story,
Stepping out of the insulated comfort zone is a challenge for... well most everyone.
First 30 seconds or so is fodder... after she gets to the meat and potatoes.
bullbugle307
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Yep. Totally in agreement. I guess my main point was that it would drive me crazy trying to isolate the variables so to speak. It would be like, why is this person acting this way. Is it x, y, z or some combination. Oftentimes you'd have to make a guess based on instinct or speculation knowing you could be wrong. It must be frustrating.
We take a lot of this stuff for granted. A few years back I started encouraging my wife to go bird hunting with the dogs when I couldn't go. When she hunted the springer unit during the special hunt, aside from all the staring, there was an incident where even the gal at the trailer straight up couldn't comprehend she was up there alone and failed to give her a parking pass. It was just assumed she had been with a guy who had taken care of all that already.
geetar
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Not to detract from Randy in any way because he has a different platform but on a worldwide level Steve has been one of the best things to happen to the outdoor industry in the last few years. It was one of the first televised shows that wasn’t about the size of the horns and more about the meat and the experience. Before anyone calls me a fanboy for supporting Rinella I don’t agree with him on a lot of things but he’s good for the sport if you will and I appreciate his contribution.
Northwoods Labs
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hahaha.....what "agenda" is that?
Northwoods Labs
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It was a good episode. Some of the podcasts have been kinda stale, but the ones with authors and scientists are always great in my opinion
Dl1969
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Being a AMERICAN MEXICAN I’ll have to give all these podcast a listen,never really thought of the funny reactions I get when people find out I’m a hunter
MO Betta
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I tend to believe Rinella when he says this was in the works before the BLM movement came around again, so I don't think it's just an attempt to capitalize on the current climate. This isn't the first time he's had a black guest on the podcast, Bo Jackson was on one - can't remember how much/if any topics involving race and hunting & fishing came up on that one.
I haven't listened much to the MeatEater podcast, or honestly many others recently as windshield time has been pretty well cut out since the SIP orders went into effect. They do seem much more commercialized now, but whatever. Everyone deserves the opportunity to make money. MeatEater & Fresh Tracks got me back into watching Outdoor programming again, both platforms have had a good message, story, and cinematography. All seem like good people, not sure why anyone would be an apologist for liking them. Hopefully get some more time behind the wheel soon so I can catch back up more easily.
I haven't listened much to the MeatEater podcast, or honestly many others recently as windshield time has been pretty well cut out since the SIP orders went into effect. They do seem much more commercialized now, but whatever. Everyone deserves the opportunity to make money. MeatEater & Fresh Tracks got me back into watching Outdoor programming again, both platforms have had a good message, story, and cinematography. All seem like good people, not sure why anyone would be an apologist for liking them. Hopefully get some more time behind the wheel soon so I can catch back up more easily.
I listened to it when it was first released. The title was misleading, there didn't seem to be any difficult part of the conversation. I can appreciate her work and think everyone can benefit from closer relationships with nature especially through hunting.
That said. Once they start guessing motives based on race, assuming guilt, blaming everyone else because you sometimes feel "paranoid" you lose me. We all deal with the random rude local or ignorant warden at some point. Everyone regardless of race knows what it feels like to be the "odd man out". At one point she says she "doesn't need to know the numbers for my feeling to be validated" and that's complete bullshit. Yes, when you want to accuse people of "systemic racism" then you better know that the numbers justify that. Shocker, they don't. At another point Steve asks her how she feels seeing minorities represented in outdoor ads, valid question. But her response is that she wants to see the board of the company.. So another purity test where she gets to guess motivations. Right in the beginning Steve says something like "I'm surprised you don't get hate mail" [weird, systemic racism yet no hate mail hmmm] and her response is "I might now that I'm doing this podcast" and Steve says "oh I'm sure you will" implying he assumes his listeners are racist. Because any disagreement is racist apparently.
Discussing how the black community can work toward fostering more outdoor engagement from within, instead of blaming others for feeling "uncomfortable" in the outdoor space would actually be a difficult conversation. Promoting empowerment instead of defaulting to blaming "racism" would be a refreshing and difficult conversation.
That said. Once they start guessing motives based on race, assuming guilt, blaming everyone else because you sometimes feel "paranoid" you lose me. We all deal with the random rude local or ignorant warden at some point. Everyone regardless of race knows what it feels like to be the "odd man out". At one point she says she "doesn't need to know the numbers for my feeling to be validated" and that's complete bullshit. Yes, when you want to accuse people of "systemic racism" then you better know that the numbers justify that. Shocker, they don't. At another point Steve asks her how she feels seeing minorities represented in outdoor ads, valid question. But her response is that she wants to see the board of the company.. So another purity test where she gets to guess motivations. Right in the beginning Steve says something like "I'm surprised you don't get hate mail" [weird, systemic racism yet no hate mail hmmm] and her response is "I might now that I'm doing this podcast" and Steve says "oh I'm sure you will" implying he assumes his listeners are racist. Because any disagreement is racist apparently.
Discussing how the black community can work toward fostering more outdoor engagement from within, instead of blaming others for feeling "uncomfortable" in the outdoor space would actually be a difficult conversation. Promoting empowerment instead of defaulting to blaming "racism" would be a refreshing and difficult conversation.
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Scrappy
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How in the world do you guys do it, I have tried on numerous occasions to listen to pod cast? I made it about three minutes on this one, dudes sitting around talking about bugs hatching in Minnesota and recording it so other people can listen to it. What am I missing here???
D
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2hr a day commute + sitting alone all day on a computer clicking buttons.
I agree 100%.
