4 year olds with guns

[BuzzH]

The state of Montana is allowed to set regulations regarding wildlife...season dates, age limits for purchasing licenses, season length, harvest quotas, bag limits, caliber restrictions, hunters orange requirements, the list goes on and on.

If you cant comprehend that...theres no use in discussing anything further with you...pointless.

 

[tjones]

To manage wildlife don't you need to manage hunters?

 

[schmalts]

You kids fight nice, I have some sleep to catch up so I can stay up late tommorow and do my 11 year olds AZ elk app.

 

[spook12]

Buzz I understand that perfectly. You are trying to deflect,so I will try a different path.

Can we agree that all the people of Mt. are who this wildlife is to be Managed for?
If yes, can we then agree that the people should have a voice in how that wildlife is managed? It is theirs after all
If yes, can we then agree that some of the people of that state should be able to petition their state and request that changes be made in how that wildlife is managed?

So once again I ask. Does anyone have a REAL reason that the parents should not be the ones making the decision on how and when their children are introduced to hunting?

 

[BuzzH]

Uncle...

 

[spook12]

Buzz I understand that perfectly. You are trying to deflect,so I will try a different path.

Can we agree that all the people of Mt. are who this wildlife is to be Managed for?
If yes, can we then agree that the people should have a voice in how that wildlife is managed? It is theirs after all
If yes, can we then agree that some of the people of that state should be able to petition their state and request that changes be made in how that wildlife is managed?

So once again I ask. Does anyone have a REAL reason that the parents should not be the ones making the decision on how and when their children are introduced to hunting?

Buzz that's cute and all but do you have an answer for this? Am I wrong?

 

[BuzzH]

Yeah, I do have an answer...its bullchit that the 12 year old regulation (which has been in place since at least 1957) is being questioned by some asshat Montana State Legislator when theres much bigger issues facing wildlife.

I also dont buy the bullchit reasons for it...parental rights, we're losing youth hunters, other states are doing it.

My Dad waited until he was 12...my Brother and I waited until we were 12 before we bought a license. Further, my parents werent a bunch of crybabies, like the ME, ME, ME crowd that push this type of crap via the state legislature.

This type of BS is why theres hundreds of unnecessary bills running through the legislature, costing the taxpayers a fortune. Everyone is out for themselves, rather than being content with what they have.

Its pathetic and a joke...parents need to drop the ego, quit living vicariously through their kids, and quit thinking their kids should be the exception to every rule.

The entitlement generation surely is something...

 

[spook12]

Yeah, I do have an answer...its bullchit that the 12 year old regulation (which has been in place since at least 1957) is being questioned by some asshat Montana State Legislator when theres much bigger issues facing wildlife.

I also dont buy the bullchit reasons for it...parental rights, we're losing youth hunters, other states are doing it.

My Dad waited until he was 12...my Brother and I waited until we were 12 before we bought a license. Further, my parents werent a bunch of crybabies, like the ME, ME, ME crowd that push this type of crap via the state legislature.

This type of BS is why theres hundreds of unnecessary bills running through the legislature, costing the taxpayers a fortune. Everyone is out for themselves, rather than being content with what they have.

Its pathetic and a joke...parents need to drop the ego, quit living vicariously through their kids, and quit thinking their kids should be the exception to every rule.

The entitlement generation surely is something...

DING, DING ,DING.We have a winner.

That is the most honest answer yet, and you are to be commended for that.

I suspect that there are those that dont share your lack of concern for parental rights or the peoples right to address their government,but you are welcome to your opinion.

After reading through these post I couldn't agree more with your statement that''everyone is out for themselves''when a lot of guys started out against this bill then decided that it would be O.K. if kids filled mom or dads tags but not their own, that sounded real selfish to me also.

So in summary. The REAL reasons Not to support this bill are.
The restriction has been around since 1957.
It was proposed by an asshat.
Parental rights are bullshit.
Its bullshit that we are losing hunters
Others have waited until they where 12.
Parents are crybabies,who push stuff on the state legislature.
Everyone is out for themselves.

.

 

[BuzzH]

The sky will surely fall if 5 year olds cant buy their own license...such a pressing issue facing the Montana Citziens and Legislature.

Congratulations on "fixing" something that isnt broken...something the legislature has a "knack" for.

 

[huntme]

huntme, you said " rifle calibure should be limited by the voters,not by the childs father or mother."

Like I've said, this is obviously a Montana problem to be addressed by Montanans; but, isn't this portion of the comment similar to Obama and the liberal gun grabbers attitudes towards semi-automatic rifles? Do you REALLY want a bunch of non-hunting, uneducated about gun voters making the decisions about what caliber of rifle or gauge of shotgun you can hunt with? Isn't that one of the problems in those states that require muzzle loaders and shotguns only? Or the states where a pistol caliber is all that's legal for hunting deer?

As for the comments about people moving to Montana and trying to change the state into a semblance of where they came from; that's the problem when you receive a large group of transplants. We in the South are quite experienced with this problem, so I sympathize wholeheartedly with that attitude. Here in SC, we're even having our seasons, limits, and traditions challenged and changed by non-resident hunters, at least you're dealing with people who actually live and pay taxes in your state. I believe that those of us from other states who have posted on this thread, have simply tried to legitimize the fact that any age minimum requirements established by the state simply can not be scientifically quantified as an absolute and as such is strictly just an arbitrary age pulled out of a hat. How would you feel if the minimum age were to be upped to 21? Would that then be an acceptable age? I seriously doubt it, but if the state established it as the law, how many of you would be willing to go along with such an obviously arbitrary limit?

well here is the difference,obama wants to take guns from everybody,me, you,himself,the world,and i dont know about you but i do not want a 7 or 8 or 9 year old carrying his or his fathers,pistole,rifle,shotgun,car, truckknife,chucks,battle axx,or any other weapon,if his or her father wants to walk down the street with a maduce,straped to his back,then by all means,he has the right,and so he should,but it does not give his,kid the right to do so.
and 12 years old is acceptable age,to allow your children to learn to shoot,carry,load,clean,and take care of a firearm,and most have excepted that age,as a minimum age,to learn to hunt,and all the rest that goes with it.
and just to clarify,children are not adults,so the second ammendment does not apply to them,it does how ever apply to the young persons parrents.:hump:

 

[huntme]

Going to tell them parents they can't spank the kid too? I mean really, it is your business right?
If you co-workers and buddies dont support it, the best thing for them if it passes is to make the right choice as a parent and not let their kid shoot a gun until he is ready in the parents mind regardless if he is 12 or older. Oh wait a minute, that would be doing kind of the opposite of letting a parent make the choice.
Yea I am being a douche, but it sounds like you guys are not even open to this even if there was changes made to the bill involving tag allotment and arms reach rules. You guys must be the kind of kid that was not allowed to own a BB gun when you were 6 "because you will shoot your eye out" Oh and I forgot to mention, Obama thinks your kids high school football sport is too risky and kids are getting hurt, he might have to do something about that because the parents are not equipped to make that choice either. Good grief

schmalts-my father said guns were not toys,so no i did not have a bb gun,or a cap gun,or a squirt gun,but at 7 years old he let me shoot one of his 10/22,in fact the one he allways let me shoot,from the time i turned 7,was given to me when i turned 12 years old,he kept it in his room,but it was mine to shoot,and hunt with,and clean,it was mine,and at age 13 when i completed my hunter safety course,then it remained in my closset from that time on.
so what is your point?

 

[spook12]

Spook. Like I've said, it is my opinion that the mentor program is not a good idea for Montana. MY opinion, but not mine alone. I have my reasons, some of which have been addressed here. I first learned of the bill in our local paper. It was introduced by a Sen. that is an outfitter. Two of the biggest supporters he has are a taxidermist and another outfitter. Coincedence? I don't know. I threw this out at work and to my hunting buds, and not a lot of support was shown. What we have works was the recurring answer. I can appreciate your opinion. Try to understand mine. My REAL reason that parents shouldn't be making this decision for their kids? As much as everyone would like to believe it, some parents just aren't equipped to make the decision. mtmuley

mtmuley i hear ya man. I do understand how you and others feel about this, but it just doesn't seem right to keep a law on the books based on the lowest possible denominator.

As to your last sentence,you are correct some parents don't appear equipped to make ANY decision in my opinion.I on the other hand don't believe that I or anyone else have the right to impose my beliefs on you or anyone else. Where is the line when it comes to personal responsibility ? At what point are we responsible for ourselves and our own families? I am in no way saying that there shouldn't be rules in a society,but at what point are we infringing on someone else's rights to make their own choices.If someone could show me an example of how the passage of this bill would be harmful in any way to the wildlife of MT. I would be the first to oppose it.

So it appears that this Bill will be defeated and the law abiding Families of MT. will continue to have a law on the books that takes away their freedom to choose whats best for themselves,because their fellow citizens don't trust them.
One more chance to take back a little responsibility for ourselves (at the expense of no one,or nothing) lost once again....Sad!

 

[The Hedgehog]

I suggest a beer habit.

 

[schmalts]

schmalts-my father said guns were not toys,so no i did not have a bb gun,or a cap gun,or a squirt gun,but at 7 years old he let me shoot one of his 10/22,in fact the one he allways let me shoot,from the time i turned 7,was given to me when i turned 12 years old,he kept it in his room,but it was mine to shoot,and hunt with,and clean,it was mine,and at age 13 when i completed my hunter safety course,then it remained in my closset from that time on.
so what is your point?

My point is it was your fathers choice. In most states what he did is illegal maybe even when he did it. My guess is your father would have done the same even if it was illegal because back then no one told a parent what they could do like they can now,.

 

[twodot]

Interesting difference. Over at 24 hour campfire this bill has an overwhelming support.
It appears that 7 of 8 montanans are in favor there. Different neighborhoods I guess.

 

[rhomas]

huntme, you didn't answer my last question about the age limit if it were moved up to 21.

And, BTW, the Second Amendment doesn't have any age restrictions in it, and if the liberals have their way, it won't make any difference regardless. We won't have any rights left, no matter how old (or young) we are!

 

[schmalts]

Interesting difference. Over at 24 hour campfire this bill has an overwhelming support.
It appears that 7 of 8 montanans are in favor there. Different neighborhoods I guess.

Probably had more to do with the way the topic title was slanted ....

 

[tjones]

Only 17 replies, small sample, very small. And its the fire.

 

[Pierre]

Spook, maybe I can add a little landowner experience. I allow kids accompanied by adults to hunt gophers here on the ranch at any time. It is a place where parents can mentor. They may hunt any non-game to gain experience. They should be accompanying parents on hunts to learn ALL the ropes before a firearm is put in their hands. On the flip side, if I allow legal kids to hunt pheasants here with their parents, the parents will hunt in competition with their kids every single time....the result is the parents limit out and kids get 0. I have a real weakness for a guy who drives in my yard with 2 kids and a dog to go hunting. I allow the kids to hunt but not the adult....result; the adult actually mentors the kids with "at the moment advice".
My experience tells me that parents are not all that good at helping during the hunt. My better half is a middle school counselor and collaborates with the local hunter safety instructors and all concur that while not all kids fit the mold, if you have to choose an age, 12 is it. There is both physical and mental readiness to consider. Hope that helps.

 

[Pierre]

In case its not clear, I support Montana's law as is. The parent or mentors job is huge and should occur before legal hunting. Hunters safety is a program I went thru (nearly 50 years ago). I support the position of those instructors that our present law is the best way to go.