Wyoming Elk Draw Proposed

[BuzzH]

If they make the app period ending in January and not release results until end of May this has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of! I mean that’s ridiculous. U can’t hold ppl hostage and their money that long. I mean what’s wrong is wrong and this is wrong. Just because u can do something doesn’t mean u should. And making ppl decide their plans in January and making them wait that long when WY knows most of those ppl apply elsewhere isn’t fair or just. If they want to move it to May then move the app deadline too. At some point, everything doesn’t always have to be about money! Just treat ppl and your customers fair and things would be much better in all aspects of life.

Its not about the money for the commission or the department.

 

[ImBillT]

Really? I would have never guessed, being new and all to wildlife politics.

Do you actually think that if I call WOGA they’re gonna care what I have to say?

 

[Thomas11]

Its not about the money for the commission or the department.

Fair enough. But the outfittters seem to be pushing this correct? And it is about the money for the WYOGA. They want to lock up everyone’s app before other states and that’s fine if the commission wants to have a early NR app period to appease the WYOGA but u can’t handicap ppl that long and expect them to just do nothing or not get upset. I mean if I have to apply in Jan and not find out till June I’m gonna pissed off! Nothing I can really do about it but I just don’t even see this as remotely fair. They already catered to the guides w the wilderness laws. I mean when is enough enough? I’ve just never been a fan making the laws or rules just so they benefit a select few. If someone wants to use a outfitter they will and if they don’t they won’t. It’s that simple to me. But Making the rules so that u have to use one to me just discourages ppl from going there. If u have a good product ppl will use it, if not they won’t. But it’s wrong to force all this on ppl in my opinion. And making them wait 4-5 months on results is piss poor customer service. Not even counting the fact they take your money upfront

 

[Deleted member 16014]

If they make the app period ending in January and not release results until end of May this has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of! I mean that’s ridiculous. U can’t hold ppl hostage and their money that long. I mean what’s wrong is wrong and this is wrong. Just because u can do something doesn’t mean u should. And making ppl decide their plans in January and making them wait that long when WY knows most of those ppl apply elsewhere isn’t fair or just. If they want to move it to May then move the app deadline too. At some point, everything doesn’t always have to be about money! Just treat ppl and your customers fair and things would be much better in all aspects of life.

I'm not saying it makes sense, but if that's the dumbest thing you've heard of...charmed life...

 

[ImBillT]

I found this part interesting, is the rollover of LQ tags from NR to Residents new this year? Also the issuance of general tags to meet the NR total.quota:
If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota by issuing nonresident general elk licenses. Licenses remaining for limited quota areas resulting from this procedure may be made available in the resident elk initial drawing .

May have been the same for many years, but if you look it over, the result is that most likely they will sell the same number of total NR licenses, but fewer will be limited quota and more will be general. Perhaps WOGA supports it, but the average resident hunter in WY may be equally supportive if not more so. If Buzz is right, and they’ll sell the same number of NR licenses regardless of the change, then the change results in equal money for the dept but more LQ tags for residents. Perhaps WOGA isn’t the only entity supporting this move. They may be the easiest to demonize.

 

[MNElkNut]

Will they sell the same amount of licenses? Maybe/maybe not, but I am quite confident they will have fewer apply. My group has applied every year in WY, but this will bring that to a screeching halt. No way are we waiting until June to MAYBE pull a tag with only OTC tags in CO and ID as a backup. I have no idea how many feel this way, but I have heard from quite a few that they will quit applying in WY at least until they are for sure going to pull a tag (and with point creep, how can one be sure these days?).

 

[BuzzH]

Do you actually think that if I call WOGA they’re gonna care what I have to say?

I'm saying put the blame where it belongs.

I can already tell you what's in the emails being sent via the contact link. Just look at the comments on this and other boards about it already, "The department wants to draw interest on our money"...etc. etc. All bullchit...that's not what's going on, at all.

I know what happened and why, because there were a handful of us that pushed hard for the change for a host of good reasons. Its about time. We also cleared up regulation to stop the license hemorrhaging that was happening to the adjustments. A band aid if you will until this change could be made.

Being's how myself and few others on this board were at the table, I think we realize where the problems are and who is causing them.

Plus, if NR give this more than a casual thought, they'll realize that the proposed changes are going to help NR obtain more licenses and also likely hurt Residents that don't apply smartly.

As per usual, knee jerk reactions rule the day with the "me, me, me" crowd.

 

[ImBillT]

Will they sell the same amount of licenses? Maybe/maybe not, but I am quite confident they will have fewer apply. My group has applied every year in WY, but this will bring that to a screeching halt. No way are we waiting until June to MAYBE pull a tag with only OTC tags in CO and ID as a backup. I have no idea how many feel this way, but I have heard from quite a few that they will quit applying in WY at least until they are for sure going to pull a tag (and with point creep, how can one be sure these days?).

I’m sure if they don’t hit the quota, they’ll turn the general tag into OTC. Then they’ll get their money, and all the resident elk hunters will love it.

 

[BuzzH]

I’m sure if they don’t hit the quota, they’ll turn the general tag into OTC. Then they’ll get their money, and all the resident elk hunters will love it.

Please, stop...you're making a complete fool of yourself. You don't understand the issue at all.

 

[ImBillT]

I'm saying put the blame where it belongs.

I can already tell you what's in the emails being sent via the contact link. Just look at the comments on this and other boards about it already, "The department wants to draw interest on our money"...etc. etc. All bullchit...that's not what's going on, at all.

I know what happened and why, because there were a handful of us that pushed hard for the change for a host of good reasons. Its about time. We also cleared up regulation to stop the license hemorrhaging that was happening to the adjustments. A band aid if you will until this change could be made.

Being's how myself and few others on this board were at the table, I think we realize where the problems are and who is causing them.

Plus, if NR give this more than a casual thought, they'll realize that the proposed changes are going to help NR obtain more licenses and also likely hurt Residents that don't apply smartly.

As per usual, knee jerk reactions rule the day with the "me, me, me" crowd.

I don’t think it had anything to do with drawing interest on money. Raising the app fee $10 would make a lot more money than four months interest and get a lot less outcry.

How do NRs obtain more licenses if the quota remains the same? I see that getting the correct population data could increase the number of limited quota licenses available to NRs, but not total licenses, and they would go primarily to high point holders who are almost certain draw a tag. Most other NRs will abstain from the draw due to too much conflict with other drawings. I fail to see how it could hurt residents unless they were getting part of what was supposed to be the NR quota due to increased licenses after population data was collected.

 

[ImBillT]

Please, stop...you're making a complete fool of yourself. You don't understand the issue at all.

So you believe that if for some reason they didn’t sell out of NR licenses, they would just say “oh well” and do without that money?

 

[BuzzH]

May have been the same for many years, but if you look it over, the result is that most likely they will sell the same number of total NR licenses, but fewer will be limited quota and more will be general. Perhaps WOGA supports it, but the average resident hunter in WY may be equally supportive if not more so. If Buzz is right, and they’ll sell the same number of NR licenses regardless of the change, then the change results in equal money for the dept but more LQ tags for residents. Perhaps WOGA isn’t the only entity supporting this move. They may be the easiest to demonize.

Dude...seriously, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

For starters, you need to review the regulations/statute on the issuance of NR elk tags. NR receive 16% of the total limited quota elk tags in every elk unit in the State (disregarding LO tags). The number of LQ tags will NOT decrease under this proposal. In fact, they could actually INCREASE because I know, for a fact, that NR's were being excluded from certain hunts that were not in the packet in January, and being approved at the commission meeting in April. Meaning, every tag in those cases were going to Resident hunters. My wife and I drew tags in a unit one year where that happened, and guess what, NO NR's drew.

What will happen, is that every season, and quota will be approved prior to the draw, something that was not happening under the existing split. Meaning that the 84-16 split will happen on known quotas, not on quotas that changed after the commission meeting.

Secondly, by either statute/regulation, NR's receive 7,250 full price tags. The LQ tags are drawn first on the 16% split, the balance of the full price NR elk tags are issued as general tags.

Show me a single year, since passage of the statute/regulation where NR's were not issued their allotment of full price tags in the past. I'll save you the trouble, it hasn't happened.

You need to think, and be mindful of your audience before you start spouting...you're out of your depth....way out.

 

[BuzzH]

So you believe that if for some reason they didn’t sell out of NR licenses, they would just say “oh well” and do without that money?

I'm saying you clearly don't understand the first thing about how Wyoming allocates their license or the demand on the tags. Or the problems that were being caused from an early NR draw, for the department, commission, and both R and NR hunters.

For starters...

 

[ImBillT]

Dude...seriously, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

For starters, you need to review the regulations/statute on the issuance of NR elk tags. NR receive 16% of the total limited quota elk tags in every elk unit in the State (disregarding LO tags). The number of LQ tags will NOT decrease under this proposal. In fact, they could actually INCREASE because I know, for a fact, that NR's were being excluded from certain hunts that were not in the packet in January, and being approved at the commission meeting in April. Meaning, every tag in those cases were going to Resident hunters. My wife and I drew tags in a unit one year where that happened, and guess what, NO NR's drew.

What will happen, is that every season, and quota will be approved prior to the draw, something that was not happening under the existing split. Meaning that the 84-16 split will happen on known quotas, not on quotas that changed after the commission meeting.

Secondly, by either statute/regulation, NR's receive 7,250 full price tags. The LQ tags are drawn first on the 16% split, the balance of the full price NR elk tags are issued as general tags.

Show me a single year, since passage of the statute/regulation where NR's were not issued their allotment of full price tags in the past. I'll save you the trouble, it hasn't happened.

You need to think, and be mindful of your audience before you start spouting...you're out of your depth....way out.

I’m not saying anything about tags that aren’t full price. I’m saying that if the balance of the 7250 that isn’t sold as LQ gets sold as general, then a reduction in LQ will be made up for as general tags. IF NRs reduce their applications far enough that fewer LQ tags are issued, then those LQ tags go to residents and the remainder of the quota gets filled with prices general elk tags. Yes?

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I don't know Buzz, the state would only need 16,501 nr's to say "to hell with wyo elk" and they would miss the 7250 quota. Highly likely.

 

[ImBillT]

I'm saying you clearly don't understand the first thing about how Wyoming allocates their license or the demand on the tags. Or the problems that were being caused from an early NR draw, for the department, commission, and both R and NR hunters.

For starters...

I understand the problems caused by the early draw, and it’s nice that that was fixed.

I did forget the whole second choice doesn’t cost you your points thing. So, they’ll likely only miss out on application fees from all the folks not interested in a general tag.

I’m not the one that said the quota wouldn’t be hit. I simply responded to a person who suggested that it might happen, that there was a simple enough solution for WY to get their money. It’s called OTC, and I’m sure it would happen if there were sitting on 1,000 NR tags that hadn’t been purchased.

 

[Kearnsie14]

It does all the things I listed so does all the good intended.

But I agree it makes no sense to not allow NR's to apply up until the Resident deadline unless you're an outfitter.

Either way, Wyoming will sell every available NR elk tag.

I agree with all of this. On a side note, I wonder if 1) the holding of the app money for 4+ months and, 2) the uncertainty of applicants waiting 4+ months to see if they drew will cause some NR's who otherwise would have applied in WY to apply elsewhere and not chance not drawing a tag? Obviously, what people will or won't do is difficult to predict but the net result may be that draw odds increase for those NR's that do apply.

 

[BuzzH]

I’m not saying anything about tags that aren’t full price. I’m saying that if the balance of the 7250 that isn’t sold as LQ gets sold as general, then a reduction in LQ will be made up for as general tags. IF NRs reduce their applications far enough that fewer LQ tags are issued, then those LQ tags go to residents and the remainder of the quota gets filled with prices general elk tags. Yes?

Get it through your thick skull...there will be NO REDUCTION IN NR LQ LICENSES. Look at the demand...they draw LQ licenses FIRST. The balance of what NR's don't get in LQ full price tags, is made up with full price general tags.

You don't get it...slow down and ask questions.

 

[MNElkNut]

I would guess that there are some unintended consequences in the future that none of us see coming due to this change.

 

[JM77]

I would guess that there are some unintended consequences in the future that none of us see coming due to this change.

Yep, and they may benefit you...