Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

[TOGIE]

i feel no frustration personally, am not whining, am not upset.

i'd just be lying if i said "yes, i want LESS opportunity in wyoming" - what right minded person would want less opportunity ANYWHERE?

the vitriol from residents though... holy crap people

until colorado gets in line with most western states i'll feel like coloradans actually have more ground to complain on than anyone else, that is, if i wanted to complain. wyoming, or any western state, can hardly complain about hunt crowds unless you live and hunt here.

that said, i shoot stuff every year, and hunt cheaply, so, no, i'm not complaining. wyoming will do what wyoming does and life will go on just fine, and i'll probably still have plent of opportunity to go hunting up there trhoughout my life

 

[bts09]

Everybody needs to take a deeeeep breath here.

For sure. The notion of disagreeing without being disagreeable is lost on, well, most of the world these days.

I'm a Texas resident. I've actually never applied for any of the big 5 in Wyoming because to me the odds were way too long and there was no way I was ever going to amass enough preference points in this life to get one--moreover, I was 100% convinced that at some day in time (long before I would ever draw), the preference point system would go away or be revamped or be changed in such a way that my money and time would have been wasted. But...I can still feel badly for the people who did invest so much money in those preference points. Were they ever promised anything? Probably not in any legal sense. But I still feel for them because they had an expectation that Wyoming G&F was not going to pull the rug out from under them--as G&F happily cashed the preference point checks each year. A lot of folks on here have made the (fairly cynical) argument that well, that's what you get--no one promised you anything. Ok. You're not "wrong," but maybe you could consider at least seeing it from the other perspective. We do a lot of things in life on faith that the system will keep working the way it has--is that a good assumption? No, probably not. But do we all make it in some situations or another?

Wyoming has been great (maybe too good) for NRs for a long time. I think a lot of the complaints you see from NRs have maybe less to do with Wyoming specifically and more to do with the fact that it's getting harder and more expensive to hunt everywhere. Each year it becomes more and more of a rich person's sport and less and less of something that the everyman can meaningfully engage in. There are still a ton of opportunities, but more and more disappear each year.

Buzz, thanks for keeping us all in the loop--interested to hear what happens tomorrow.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz do you expect any news about issues beyond 90/10 for the "big 5" tomorrow or will most of the focus be on that issue first?

It will also be interesting to see if there are changes made to the points/random allocation for those tags, so I'll be curious about that.

It will probably depend on how fast they get through the big 5 90-10 issue. I would guess that should move rather quickly, but its a 10 hour meeting tomorrow.

Last meeting it was discussed that the random/preference split will have to change, I suspect 50-50 between the draws.

That will benefit those in lower point pools, not real bad for those in the upper pools, but tough on those in the mid-range pools.

 

[WapitiBob]

Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce - Meeting Materials

Meeting materials will be posted to this page, including agendas once available.

sites.google.com

 

[BlazerBeam]

Your first paragraph is not wrong. Unfortunately, the days of the Western states residents hunting all over their own state easily and cheaply might be threatened at some point too in the not-so-distant future. When that time comes, we will all be way better off being supportive and cooperative than this thread indicates we really are.

This very well could be a possibility. But I would ask why is that a looming possibility?

So many NR hunters are becoming resident hunters. Also, more residents are becoming resident hunters, and more successful resident hunters. Thanks to: Randy Newberg, Rinella, Born and Raised, Hushin, Ryan Lampers, Brian Call, Remi Warren, Corey Jacobsen, The Eastmans, Bob Beck, Cam Hanes, Muley Freak, GoHunt, Taghub, OnX, basemaps, Mtn ops, and on and on.... These people have created a beast that cannot and will not be tamed, unless they decide to let off the throttle, or people quit supporting them. Most of these fellas have quit their jobs and are full-time influencers and make some decent dough from selling the hunting experience through entertainment, knowledge served on a silver platter, gear, and a brand.

Find me one hunter today who has not heard of or watched one of these fella's episodes. Find me one hunter who does not know of these brands or gear or subscriptions. These guys are the driving force behind the woods getting more clogged up and more opportunities being taken away from both the NR and Resident. I call, and will continue to call, Ponyshit on these guys caring much about anything other than their own opportunities to make money doing what we all love. Talking about what the RMEF has done for land access in one of your podcasts does not offset what problems you have helped create, and I would even argue that being involved with those issues is a wise business tactic to help promote your brand.

Its funny how much arguing is done about allocation of decreasing number of tags or animal herds, but no pressure is ever put on these "industry leaders" to keep their hunting to themselves and quit monetizing it. There is a direct correlation between these people and decreasing opportunities. Why do more people not make that connection? Why are there not more people sounding the alarm on that fact?? Is it because we hunters like the youtube entertainment too much? Do we need the product reviews? Because we rely on the easiness of gaining elk hunting tips and knowledge? I just don't understand...

 

[Shangobango]

It's definitely not offensive that NRs can comment on this process... that's a ridiculous statement. But: While I understand the general sentiment coming from my fellow NRs, Wyoming is literally only moving to an allocation that matches basically everyone else (and still beats NM, OR, several others).

I mean not to gloss over the frustration some of you guys are feeling, but I think signaling an apocalypse over allocation changes as an NR is just as fractious and destructive as being an R who boasts an "FU, got mine" attitude.

Everybody needs to take a deeeeep breath here.

Yea, I am not frustrated by Wyoming going to 90/10. i was at first but they are just trying to do what is best for residents. I am more concerned at the price increases that accompany it.

I mainly just find the whole “mine, mine, mine” attitude that some portray as distasteful. I really can’t help myself when it comes to pushing back on that.

Gotta take joy where you can find it.

 

[3855WIN]

Come on out and do whatever you like on it, just don't hunt our animals or catch any of our fish. Try to grasp the notion that the wildlife belongs to the citizens of Wyoming and not non-residents.

Why the resident greed for the animals? Wyoming has a tiny human population. Do residents need two elk per season? Three? Last I heard, elk numbers in Wyoming were large and growing. Just seems a problem is being addressed that doesn’t exist.

 

[BuzzH]

Why the resident greed for the animals? Wyoming has a tiny human population. Do residents need two elk per season? Three? Last I heard, elk numbers in Wyoming were large and growing. Just seems a problem is being addressed that doesn’t exist.

Why shouldn't Residents be allowed to shoot 3 elk a year here?

I mean, really, you can shoot a pile of whitetails, small game, hogs, all sorts of stuff in MS.

Do residents really need 15-20 deer a year there?

We can play that game all day long...hunting is important to the people that work here, live here, raise families here, advocate for wildlife here...you know, build lives here. Probably similar to how MS Residents feel regarding their wildlife.

I don't begrudge you your 15-20 deer a year, why are you busting the chops of residents here for wanting something similar?

 

[brocksw]

At the very least, you have to admit. Buzz is consistent.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I mean every other state bends nonresident hunters over and breaks it off right in their ass. Wyoming should follow suit for no other reason than that.

 

[rwc101]

I mainly just find the whole “mine, mine, mine” attitude that some portray as distasteful. I really can’t help myself when it comes to pushing back on that.

Exactly how residents feel reading some of these comments as well.

 

[oswald2581]

I mean every other state bends nonresident hunters over and breaks it off right in their ass. Wyoming should follow suit for no other reason than that.

If they don't break it over in opportunity, it is the cost of a tag!

 

[Shangobango]

Why shouldn't Residents be allowed to shoot 3 elk a year here?

I mean, really, you can shoot a pile of whitetails, small game, hogs, all sorts of stuff in MS.

Do residents really need 15-20 deer a year there?

We can play that game all day long...hunting is important to the people that work here, live here, raise families here, advocate for wildlife here...you know, build lives here. Probably similar to how MS Residents feel regarding their wildlife.

I don't begrudge you your 15-20 deer a year, why are you busting the chops of residents here for wanting something similar?

Comparing Mississippi to Wyoming makes zero sense.

The limit in Mississippi is nowhere near 15-20 deer unless it has changed in the last year or so.

Furthermore, if the same number of big game animals were harvested in Wyoming as Mississippi on a yearly basis, in a few years there would be no big game animals left in Wyoming.

It is not a fair comparison.

If the States out west want to go to 100/0 that is their prerogative. Reap what you sow. You have free reign for now. It is all operating on borrowed time and the sowing is being done on a lot of land that people from other States are stakeholders in.

I think many folks including myself would benefit from trying to see other peoples perspective on this.

 

[D_Walt]

Why the resident greed for the animals? Wyoming has a tiny human population. Do residents need two elk per season? Three? Last I heard, elk numbers in Wyoming were large and growing. Just seems a problem is being addressed that doesn’t exist.

As has been stated multiple times in this thread and others, even if LE elk goes 90/10 there will be no decrease in overall elk tag #’s the previous # of LE NR tags will just go to the general pool. I think NR’s can still get two or three total elk tags, however getting a general either Sex/bull tag will take an extra year or two.
It’s the price we pay for a growing economy, a growing population and highly (overly?) successful hunter outreach programs. The argument that “opportunity” is decreasing perhaps is true on an individual level, but overall I believe there has never been more elk tags available nationwide than right now. There is just coincidentally more aspiring elk hunters than ever before as well.
Again, all this is predicated by multiple complex factors that have greatly reduced populations of deer, Moose, Sheep and Goats over the past 20+ years. For most species the story is More hunters, Fewer animals though Elk seems to be more elk, even more hunters. There is still a hell of a lot of hunting opportunities if you seek them.
One thing for sure I’ve learned from reading conversations like this, we may or may not have the ability to join together and do something good, but we damn sure can tear each other apart by letting emotions over shadow facts and rational thinking.

 

[3855WIN]

Why shouldn't Residents be allowed to shoot 3 elk a year here?

I mean, really, you can shoot a pile of whitetails, small game, hogs, all sorts of stuff in MS.

Do residents really need 15-20 deer a year there?

We can play that game all day long...hunting is important to the people that work here, live here, raise families here, advocate for wildlife here...you know, build lives here. Probably similar to how MS Residents feel regarding their wildlife.

I don't begrudge you your 15-20 deer a year, why are you busting the chops of residents here for wanting something similar?

You can come as a non resident to Mississippi and kill a limit every year. It might get much more difficult for me as a non resident to come to Wyoming every year and just get one tag. Wyoming is a game rich state with 600,000 people. It needs some NR help to manage the elk herd.

 

[rwc101]

You can come as a non resident to Mississippi and kill a limit every year. It might get much more difficult for me as a non resident to come to Wyoming every year and just get one tag. Wyoming is a game rich state with 600,000 people. It needs some NR help to manage the elk herd.

I didn't draw a bull or cow tag this year. We don't need NR help shooting elk.

 

[WapitiBob]

This very well could be a possibility. But I would ask why is that a looming possibility?

So many NR hunters are becoming resident hunters. Also, more residents are becoming resident hunters, and more successful resident hunters. Thanks to: Randy Newberg, Rinella, Born and Raised, Hushin, Ryan Lampers, Brian Call, Remi Warren, Corey Jacobsen, The Eastmans, Bob Beck, Cam Hanes, Muley Freak, GoHunt, Taghub, OnX, basemaps, Mtn ops, and on and on.... These people have created a beast that cannot and will not be tamed, unless they decide to let off the throttle, or people quit supporting them. Most of these fellas have quit their jobs and are full-time influencers and make some decent dough from selling the hunting experience through entertainment, knowledge served on a silver platter, gear, and a brand.

Find me one hunter today who has not heard of or watched one of these fella's episodes. Find me one hunter who does not know of these brands or gear or subscriptions. These guys are the driving force behind the woods getting more clogged up and more opportunities being taken away from both the NR and Resident. I call, and will continue to call, Ponyshit on these guys caring much about anything other than their own opportunities to make money doing what we all love. Talking about what the RMEF has done for land access in one of your podcasts does not offset what problems you have helped create, and I would even argue that being involved with those issues is a wise business tactic to help promote your brand.

Its funny how much arguing is done about allocation of decreasing number of tags or animal herds, but no pressure is ever put on these "industry leaders" to keep their hunting to themselves and quit monetizing it. There is a direct correlation between these people and decreasing opportunities. Why do more people not make that connection? Why are there not more people sounding the alarm on that fact?? Is it because we hunters like the youtube entertainment too much? Do we need the product reviews? Because we rely on the easiness of gaining elk hunting tips and knowledge? I just don't understand...

The only thing more self centered than a hunter, is a hunter that want's to keep all the new ones out.

 

[3855WIN]

As has been stated multiple times in this thread and others, even if LE elk goes 90/10 there will be no decrease in overall elk tag #’s the previous # of LE NR tags will just go to the general pool. I think NR’s can still get two or three total elk tags, however getting a general either Sex/bull tag will take an extra year or two.
It’s the price we pay for a growing economy, a growing population and highly (overly?) successful hunter outreach programs. The argument that “opportunity” is decreasing perhaps is true on an individual level, but overall I believe there has never been more elk tags available nationwide than right now. There is just coincidentally more aspiring elk hunters than ever before as well.
Again, all this is predicated by multiple complex factors that have greatly reduced populations of deer, Moose, Sheep and Goats over the past 20+ years. For most species the story is More hunters, Fewer animals though Elk seems to be more elk, even more hunters. There is still a hell of a lot of hunting opportunities if you seek them.
One thing for sure I’ve learned from reading conversations like this, we may or may not have the ability to join together and do something good, but we damn sure can tear each other apart by letting emotions over shadow facts and rational thinking.

There are 62 million federal acres in Wyoming. There are 600,000 residents. It’s silly to push non resident hunters out.

 

[ccc23454]

There are 62 million federal acres in Wyoming. There are 600,000 residents. It’s silly to push non resident hunters out.

 

[RobertD]

As has been stated multiple times in this thread and others, even if LE elk goes 90/10 there will be no decrease in overall elk tag #’s the previous # of LE NR tags will just go to the general pool. I think NR’s can still get two or three total elk tags, however getting a general either Sex/bull tag will take an extra year or two.
It’s the price we pay for a growing economy, a growing population and highly (overly?) successful hunter outreach programs. The argument that “opportunity” is decreasing perhaps is true on an individual level, but overall I believe there has never been more elk tags available nationwide than right now. There is just coincidentally more aspiring elk hunters than ever before as well.
Again, all this is predicated by multiple complex factors that have greatly reduced populations of deer, Moose, Sheep and Goats over the past 20+ years. For most species the story is More hunters, Fewer animals though Elk seems to be more elk, even more hunters. There is still a hell of a lot of hunting opportunities if you seek them.
One thing for sure I’ve learned from reading conversations like this, we may or may not have the ability to join together and do something good, but we damn sure can tear each other apart by letting emotions over shadow facts and rational thinking.

Good points all the way through.