Zach
Well-known member
Better get yourself a paddle Jimmy boy...
And when he gets a 2nd nomination, best you invest in an AED.
Will the Presidents Actions lead to hard lines being drawn by hunters?
- Thread starter dannyb278
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Better get yourself a paddle Jimmy boy...
And when he gets a 2nd nomination, best you invest in an AED.
airlocksniffer
Member
Other than his executive actions, his press secretary alluded to 'holding the press accountable' for accurately reporting on his crowds size at the inauguration. At least IMO that sounds vaguely like censorship. Will advocates of the 2A in the hunting community stand up for the 1A if/when the time comes?
onpoint
Well-known member
This cartoon should possibly be on every American's refrigerator door........
oh, well most should know which cartoon....
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onpoint
Well-known member
keeping his friends close and his enemies closer......
James Riley
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Paddle won't do me any good. I'm not even in a boat. I'm in a class three rapid during run-off, and trying to swim up-stream.
If I'm wrong (which it's looking like I am) then I'll have to resign myself to the fact that the best way to turn a conservative like you into a liberal is to watch you get everything you think you want. You're about to get it. See you in eight years. Hopefully there will be something left worth caring about.
Saying "I told you so" won't be any consolation.
dannyb278
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I am a lifelong hunter but was also fortunate enough to work for both the federal sector (USFS, BLM) as well as the Private Sector as a Environmental Scientist. These initial moves by Trump worry me greatly, as I view science, and the peoples access to it as one of the few standards of truth in this world......As a side note, one of the firms I worked with was included early on in the Dakota Access Pipeline, and saw the regulatory nightmare it was to become, exiting the project over a year ago.
dannyb278
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I worry about this as well. It will be VERY easy to the mainstream TV and Print Press to cow to Trumps demands in the hope that it will all go away in 4 years. This would be extremely damaging to the "fourth estate" as well as to the American people. IF that happens we will have no choice but to deliver this information through other channels. Fortunately for us, and unfortunately for Trump, this has never been easier. The internet is now one, big "Pirate Radio"
airlocksniffer
Member
Now a political appointee will have to approve any EPA studies before release to the public:
https://apnews.com/c1423276fb574b07...ience-under-scrutiny-by-Trump-political-staff
https://apnews.com/c1423276fb574b07...ience-under-scrutiny-by-Trump-political-staff
Zach
Well-known member
Well, I'm not sure what you think I think I want, but I'm guessing you're wrong. Chances of me becoming liberal are about as high as an ants nuts.
Don't most folks think there is a difference between censorship and accountability?
James Riley
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I think you want my hope for Trump to be proven wrong. Am I wrong?
You've never become a liberal because you, as a conservative, have never gotten everything you want. You don't know what it's like to live in a world where conservatives get everything they want. I think you are about to get it.
I'm hoping not, but I think I'm fixing to be proved wrong about Trump.
beginnerhunter
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I don't know what will happen. As a federal worker I am pretty scared, but still praying for Trump to do the right thing.
I actually blame the Democrats for the situation we are in. First they alienated so many people with ACA (even though people benefited from it, the way it was done was wrong). Then they spent 8 years openly belittling and antagonizing rural/middle America. So I don't blame folks for casting their lot with Trump, a truly terrible leader who happens to speak out against coastal elites.
So hopefully Democrats will try to reach out to rural people, blue collar workers, hunters, live and let live Christians, etc. Right??? Oh wait, they're still doubling down with disdain against us bigoted, pathetic rubes. I pray they realize their error by the 2018 midterms.
I actually blame the Democrats for the situation we are in. First they alienated so many people with ACA (even though people benefited from it, the way it was done was wrong). Then they spent 8 years openly belittling and antagonizing rural/middle America. So I don't blame folks for casting their lot with Trump, a truly terrible leader who happens to speak out against coastal elites.
So hopefully Democrats will try to reach out to rural people, blue collar workers, hunters, live and let live Christians, etc. Right??? Oh wait, they're still doubling down with disdain against us bigoted, pathetic rubes. I pray they realize their error by the 2018 midterms.
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
To the point of your question, "Will the Presidents Actions lead to hard lines being drawn by hunters?" I think the answer is yes. Hunters are not inclined to stand quiet while anyone rolls back the hands of time on public lands, clean air, clean water, etc. I know I'm not. I see no exceptions for clean air, clean water, public access. If there is a plausible exception, I've yet to hear it.
That said, engagement by a small group such as the hunting community requires strategy. When you are not the majority, when you are an outsider to the power circle, it does no good to scream and yell on Facebook. It requires smart action and utilization of your limited assets.
If people knew the difference hunting groups have made since the election, they would smile. I think some day it would make a cool story. Yet, to protect the trust earned/placed, these efforts don't end up being discussed in public.
I can assure you that if not for some hunting groups we are all members of, the choice for Interior Secretary would have been between three avid anti-public land zealots who were licking their chops to get the land liquidation started. Hunting groups you are all members of had a big influence on changing that direction. That does not solve everything, but it is a big help.
The USFWS Direction position was highly desired by the western state delegation. Their choice was never given much consideration due to resistance from hunting groups.
The new Secretary of Ag is an avid quail hunter. His nomination leaped ahead of many others, thanks to some strong support from hunting groups.
And none of this happens in the public forum. It happens by working to build relationships, having credible arguments as to why the person is more qualified, and a bit of luck. Yet, even at that, hunters only have so much political capital. There will be appointments where hunters will be thanked for their input, but other choices will be made. Such is the reality of being a small segment of society.
Every day there are hunting groups working on this stuff. It is not done on Facebook, Twitter, or elsewhere. Right now, that is the biggest impact hunter groups can have on issues we have as priority. There will be other issues where our groups are just too small to be a player. We will provide comments and input, but it would be bad strategy to invest your scarce resources and influence on those topics that will be ruled by others, no matter how hard you try.
Even with the influence of hunters, no appointee is perfect. These appointees are not King of the Public Lands. They will work for an Executive, at the policy and budgetary discretion of Congress. Anyone expecting miracles will be disappointed. Political mathematicians will do the calculus to put these folks in "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.
In my 25 years of engagement in these issues, the last two months has been some of the most critical work hunting groups have done. Those groups will get no thanks for it, given it has happened without great fanfare. When an appointee is forced into a tough spot, criticism will be focused toward groups who pushed that nominee forward, warts and all, as being better than some very bad alternatives. Criticism comes with the territory when trying to lead.
When the appointee process ends and we migrate to legislation, I expect more of the same strategy by hunting groups and hunters. Hunting groups have built relationships with people who might be the last line of defense on public lands, clean air, clean water. Those will be invaluable when the attacks come on clean air and clean water. And they will come, as certain as the sun sets this afternoon.
In an election when all institutions have moved further right, the groups most able to provide effective guidance are those whose membership bell curve peaks right-of-center; as would be the case with hunters when measured as an entire community. We have an important role to play, even though we are a small percent of the population. Our hunter community dislikes political process, almost to the point of apathy, making our potential influence even harder to exercise.
It will surely be interesting. It will not be easy. And it will not be comfortable. But, it never has been comfortable, and it never should be.
That said, engagement by a small group such as the hunting community requires strategy. When you are not the majority, when you are an outsider to the power circle, it does no good to scream and yell on Facebook. It requires smart action and utilization of your limited assets.
If people knew the difference hunting groups have made since the election, they would smile. I think some day it would make a cool story. Yet, to protect the trust earned/placed, these efforts don't end up being discussed in public.
I can assure you that if not for some hunting groups we are all members of, the choice for Interior Secretary would have been between three avid anti-public land zealots who were licking their chops to get the land liquidation started. Hunting groups you are all members of had a big influence on changing that direction. That does not solve everything, but it is a big help.
The USFWS Direction position was highly desired by the western state delegation. Their choice was never given much consideration due to resistance from hunting groups.
The new Secretary of Ag is an avid quail hunter. His nomination leaped ahead of many others, thanks to some strong support from hunting groups.
And none of this happens in the public forum. It happens by working to build relationships, having credible arguments as to why the person is more qualified, and a bit of luck. Yet, even at that, hunters only have so much political capital. There will be appointments where hunters will be thanked for their input, but other choices will be made. Such is the reality of being a small segment of society.
Every day there are hunting groups working on this stuff. It is not done on Facebook, Twitter, or elsewhere. Right now, that is the biggest impact hunter groups can have on issues we have as priority. There will be other issues where our groups are just too small to be a player. We will provide comments and input, but it would be bad strategy to invest your scarce resources and influence on those topics that will be ruled by others, no matter how hard you try.
Even with the influence of hunters, no appointee is perfect. These appointees are not King of the Public Lands. They will work for an Executive, at the policy and budgetary discretion of Congress. Anyone expecting miracles will be disappointed. Political mathematicians will do the calculus to put these folks in "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.
In my 25 years of engagement in these issues, the last two months has been some of the most critical work hunting groups have done. Those groups will get no thanks for it, given it has happened without great fanfare. When an appointee is forced into a tough spot, criticism will be focused toward groups who pushed that nominee forward, warts and all, as being better than some very bad alternatives. Criticism comes with the territory when trying to lead.
When the appointee process ends and we migrate to legislation, I expect more of the same strategy by hunting groups and hunters. Hunting groups have built relationships with people who might be the last line of defense on public lands, clean air, clean water. Those will be invaluable when the attacks come on clean air and clean water. And they will come, as certain as the sun sets this afternoon.
In an election when all institutions have moved further right, the groups most able to provide effective guidance are those whose membership bell curve peaks right-of-center; as would be the case with hunters when measured as an entire community. We have an important role to play, even though we are a small percent of the population. Our hunter community dislikes political process, almost to the point of apathy, making our potential influence even harder to exercise.
It will surely be interesting. It will not be easy. And it will not be comfortable. But, it never has been comfortable, and it never should be.
Your a better man than I ,Gunga Din!
Or was it Big Fin? Gotta pull out some Kipling.
Keeping my head down & powder dry now.
Trying to keep my mouth shut every time I hear anything from either side. I told you so just doesn't cut it anymore.Laughing helps.
Pure wordspeak.
Good luck in the outside world folks! lol
Progressive conservative. Not GOP or DNC in last 30+ yrs.
Or was it Big Fin? Gotta pull out some Kipling.
Keeping my head down & powder dry now.
Trying to keep my mouth shut every time I hear anything from either side. I told you so just doesn't cut it anymore.Laughing helps.
Pure wordspeak.
Good luck in the outside world folks! lol
Progressive conservative. Not GOP or DNC in last 30+ yrs.
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Southern Elk
Well-known member
Thanks for the insight, Big Fin. I like hearing that hunting/conservation groups are making a difference.
dannyb278
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Also Sinclair Lewis " it couldn't happen here". Read the cliff notes to that. It's strikingly frightening and prophetic, written in the 30s
onpoint
Well-known member
Randy, a lot of what you said rings true - if we were dealing with what we all thought we knew before the current administration took power. I would suggest that we are in new and unfamiliar territory. It will be, as you said - interesting - to see how all the players evolve and what their actions are going forward.
See you in Helena next Monday.
Hunt when you can...... the future's uncertain.........
See you in Helena next Monday.
Hunt when you can...... the future's uncertain.........
dannyb278
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Thanks for your insight on this and for you and those in Sportsman groups that were in the trenches during this fight.
Hannibal
New member
It may be a little premature to criticize President Trump based on initial executive actions. Donald Jr. and Eric are both big game hunters ( though somewhat controversial) and their father has shown consistent support for their hunting activities. President Trump is also a gun owner. Hillary Clinton is not and is a staunch supporter of gun legislation. Does the American sportman really believe he/she would be better off with Ms. Clinton?
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