Wilderness: Mountain bicycle vs Boots. Interesting read.

[BigHornRam]

This thread is giving me the impression of an orphaned elk calf wondering up to a hungry pack of wolves looking for some play mates.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Discrimination as per the Sytes School of Law Fair Access Rule: Access to designated Wilderness areas and all other trailed landscapes may not be discriminated against on the basis of race, sex, religion, national origin, physical disability, age, or mode of transportation. This rule is enacted to apply to access by the most wide spectrum of Americans as determined by Professor Sytes and the Mountain Bikers of America Association, (not to be confused with the Green Decoy Pedalers of the Western States).

That seems to be a pretty good synopsis of his thinking, LOL!

 

[Sytes]

Straight Arrow, your time must be worth something... Least more than gracing me with your valued words, no? Least you gained another's little pet to yip to your tune. That says something for your style. Congratulations, you've raised your stature.

In the end, all we've shared are our opinions. As the Sapphire / Blue Joint emerges with info, I'll update. Should be within the next few months. If you would like to opine further, feel free. I enjoy discussion on topic.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Straight Arrow, your time must be worth something... Least more than gracing me with your valued words, no?

Nope, pretty much worthless. So there's few I'd rather read and think about other than your information. I do enjoy our bantering about public lands. It's all good stuff and often very informative. Others may bore of it and rather read about what caliber for elk, how to array their decoys, and such ... but I think you and I are focused on maintaining public lands recreation for future generations, albeit perhaps at odds with respect to keeping it wild.

 

[Northwoods Labs]

Allowing wheeled equipment would radically change the boundary waters near me. Sorry, I am not willing to "compromise" on that

 

[ARKANSASHUNTER]

I'm pretty sure everyone who can ride a mountain bike with 2 wheels on a trail can also walk on the trail. Therefore not allowing bikes does not prevent their access. I am also pretty sure that foot travel would encompass the widest variety of Americans.

 

[BigHornRam]

Biggest problem with Sapphires Charles is keeping the trails cleared. Most of the hard core mountain bikers have given up on riding that country years ago. Lot of hikers have too.

 

[Sytes]

Biggest problem with Sapphires Charles is keeping the trails cleared. Most of the hard core mountain bikers have given up on riding that country years ago. Lot of hikers have too.

Seems that is the challenge they face. Apparently, prior to the closure of mtn cycles, the "Bitterroot Backcountry Cyclists" a small group of riders, had cleared some 500 trees off a certain trail. More on this story found here.
https://missoulian.com/news/local/m...cle_192f83b3-892a-5362-b5c3-eea7b5484769.html

 

[JLS]

First, for the initial 20 years, the administrators of the Wilderness Act waffled on whether bikes were actually banned from Wilderness. Finally, in 1984, acting on one public comment, the Forest Service permanently banned bikes.

Obama intended to turn the area into the White Clouds National Monument, which would have allowed mountain bikes. Out of spite, Congressional Republicans turned it into Wilderness instead.

But be careful how loudly you scream that all “mechanical transport” is prohibited in Wilderness areas. If you apply the rule too strictly to human-powered cyclists, someday a literalist from the conservation movement might do the same to backcountry skiers—employing the human powered mechanical transportation we call an alpine-touring binding. Ditto with those shock absorbing trekking poles. And how about the aging Sierra Clubbers with their knee replacements and mechanical hips? Should we ban them too? The very thought could soil a thousand pants.

Based on comments like this, it's pretty hard to take this guy seriously. At all.

And for the record, as a mountain biker, I am firmly opposed to mountain bikes in wilderness areas. I am open to considering and supporting alternative designations for future protections.

 

[BigHornRam]

I have a bike, but am not really a mountain biker. What I have heard on the debate is the mountain bike community is fairly new to this "multiple use" process, don't like to be told no, and are not used to having to compromise like most every other user group has had to over the years.

Is this an accurate statement?

 

[sschultz]

Simple solution no bikes no horses foot traffic only.

 

[Sytes]

Compromise, negotiate, etc is not a free ride to whatever they want, they get though kicking them out of WSA's, etc... Is the catalyst for the fight for wilderness as a whole. Open BHA opposition towards WSA's presents BHA as a, "Public Lands in Boots Only Hands" position. Not to hackle the Hyena's fur again though this is the division that's forming.
This unified the large $ producing outdoor industry's publicly supported economic companies to join forces - the rest of the Public Hands in America. Then again this is simply one Hunt Talk member's opinion.

 

[MTGomer]

Simple solution no bikes no horses foot traffic only.

Mind pointing out the mechanized part on a horse? Or what makes horses inconsistent with the wilderness act?

After you do that, I’ll help you plan a horseless elk hunt on the White River. Maybe the Thorofare.

 

[tjones]

Charles have you ever set foot in the Blue Joint or Sapphire WSA’s?

 

[BuzzH]

Compromise, negotiate, etc is not a free ride to whatever they want, they get though kicking them out of WSA's, etc... Is the catalyst for the fight for wilderness as a whole. Open BHA opposition towards WSA's presents BHA as a, "Public Lands in Boots Only Hands" position. Not to hackle the Hyena's fur again though this is the division that's forming.
This unified the large $ producing outdoor industry's publicly supported economic companies to join forces - the rest of the Public Hands in America. Then again this is simply one Hunt Talk member's opinion.

Now you change the narrative to WSA's...since you got no traction with allowing mountain bikes in already designated wilderness.

Like JLS, I'm open to considering options in WSA's...but that's a wayyyyy different discussion than allowing them in already designated wilderness.

If the mountain bike crowd wants to throw a tantrum and create a division...fine with me, carry your own water and see how far you can pack it.

 

[sschultz]

Mind pointing out the mechanized part on a horse? Or what makes horses inconsistent with the wilderness act?

After you do that, I’ll help you plan a horseless elk hunt on the White River. Maybe the Thorofare.

A true wilderness area wouldn't have trails bridges and pack strings. It seems that some people want to restrict only certain things to there liking.

 

[MTGomer]

A true wilderness area wouldn't have trails bridges and pack strings. It seems that some people want to restrict only certain things to there liking.

I notice you didn’t show me where Wilderness Act says horses are inconsistent with wilderness. The purpose of wilderness isn’t for humans. Restrictions are not intended to protect certain user groups from one another, it is to keep the wilderness wild,difficult to access. ‘Untrammelled’ As they say.

Maybe read the wilderness act or spend some time in a wilderness. If you can sit in danahar meadows and think, ‘man, what this place needs is a bunch of mountain bikers zipping through it’ I don’t know what to tell you.

I don’t want mountain bikes in wilderness for the same reason I don’t want Polaris’s Rzrs.
Although, I think we should stick to reasons based on what’s best for nature and the Wilderness Act, I can see why others don’t want them simply becomes they don’t like mountain bikers. Mountain bikers are a very entitled, selfish bunch(as you can see by their push to ride in Wilderness). ‘Get the #*^@#* out of the way’ is pretty common trail etiquette used by mountain bikers in the Missoula area. . So is leaving lunch garbage all over the place.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Now you change the narrative to WSA's...since you got no traction with allowing mountain bikes in already designated wilderness.

Never mind that Rep Kerry White's Montana House JR 9 promoting the dismantling of WSA's was opposed by almost every organized conservation, hunting, and outdoor rec group imaginable, still Sytes and Congressman Jersey Gianforte would love to open up the Big Snowy Mountains WSA to motorized "balanced abuse". The crest of the Snowies would make the ideal OHV park, surpassing even those of Jersey. Dude, could you rip and tear and get serious air as you launched your machine over the mouth of the ice cave. The mineral extraction itself could pay for the wide trails, gnarly jumps, banks and speedways. Eventually there would be ample traffic to support concessions and retail venues to pay for the needed infrastructure improving that Montana landscape to more closely resemble the civilized lands of the east coast. I mean, Man, those playlands west of the Mississippi are way too odd ... they need to be flattened, contoured, paved, modified for speed and excitement. Those foolish neanderthals who hike and ride crapping horses through the mountains, grasslands, and forests don't get it ... if you ain't speeding, you ain't livin!
And really, Dude, don't worry about the elk and deer ... there's plenty of room for them in Jellystone Natural Park and on the Wilks Ranches.

 

[jlmatthew]

A true wilderness area wouldn't have trails bridges and pack strings. It seems that some people want to restrict only certain things to there liking.

So true!

Why not limit hunting methods to Flintlock & Recurve bows? buckskin clothing? Always have to raise my eyebrows at guys hunting the "Wilderness Area's" with they're 60X spotting scopes, rangefinders, 6.5-300 Weatherby's, Sitka clothing, etc, etc...

 

[FI460]

So true!

Why not limit hunting methods to Flintlock & Recurve bows? buckskin clothing? Always have to raise my eyebrows at guys hunting the "Wilderness Area's" with they're 60X spotting scopes, rangefinders, 6.5-300 Weatherby's, Sitka clothing, etc, etc...

None of those things lead to the degradation of the wilderness (lower case w) though. The intent of the act was to preserve the land from the development that had consumed much of the continent, not prevent the use of any technology.