Who owns the NRA & SCI?
- Thread starter Ben Lamb
- Start date
pointingdogsrule
Well-known member
"Taken together, these investments have helped defeat climate
change legislation in Congress, preserve tax subsidies for oil and gas companies, slow and weaken environmental protection rules, and pressure federal officials to further expand and accelerate oil and gas leasing on public lands."
What a joke! Where to start??? EPA has just been given permission by the courts to regulate coal emissions: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/politics/supreme-court-backs-epa-coal-pollution-rules.html?_r=0
Stopping the Keystone pipeline is being stalled by Obama. Even the liberal NT times reports this. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/u...in-favorable-review-of-keystone-pipeline.html
If a bird dies in a oil well sludge tank there is a fine and outrage: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9PBCGT00.htm
if a bird dies due to wind turbines then so be it, because it's "clean energy":
How many birds are killed by wind farms each year?
No one knows for sure. Recent estimates of the number of birds killed by wind turbines ranges from a low of 100,000 birds/year to 440,000 birds/year (calculated by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service). If 20% of the nation’s electricity comes from wind power by 2030, ABC estimates that at least one million birds per year will be killed by wind turbines, probably significantly more. https://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/collisions/wind_faq.html
"open public lands to more leasing... more jokes: http://naturalresources.house.gov/roadblocks/
Hey Ben, you are a better person then that. Come back when you have some real info. You really let me down on this one. I do not always agree with your posts, however, your posts are "FACT" filled & fun to read. They make me think and look at other sides. This post, especially the quote outlined above, has some many holes in the quote it's laughable. This is below your standard.
good luck to all
the dog
change legislation in Congress, preserve tax subsidies for oil and gas companies, slow and weaken environmental protection rules, and pressure federal officials to further expand and accelerate oil and gas leasing on public lands."
What a joke! Where to start??? EPA has just been given permission by the courts to regulate coal emissions: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/politics/supreme-court-backs-epa-coal-pollution-rules.html?_r=0
Stopping the Keystone pipeline is being stalled by Obama. Even the liberal NT times reports this. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/u...in-favorable-review-of-keystone-pipeline.html
If a bird dies in a oil well sludge tank there is a fine and outrage: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9PBCGT00.htm
if a bird dies due to wind turbines then so be it, because it's "clean energy":
How many birds are killed by wind farms each year?
No one knows for sure. Recent estimates of the number of birds killed by wind turbines ranges from a low of 100,000 birds/year to 440,000 birds/year (calculated by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service). If 20% of the nation’s electricity comes from wind power by 2030, ABC estimates that at least one million birds per year will be killed by wind turbines, probably significantly more. https://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/collisions/wind_faq.html
"open public lands to more leasing... more jokes: http://naturalresources.house.gov/roadblocks/
Hey Ben, you are a better person then that. Come back when you have some real info. You really let me down on this one. I do not always agree with your posts, however, your posts are "FACT" filled & fun to read. They make me think and look at other sides. This post, especially the quote outlined above, has some many holes in the quote it's laughable. This is below your standard.
good luck to all
the dog
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sbhooper
Well-known member
Welcome to America! If you do not have big donors, then you have no influence. The way of the world. Someone has to counter the left-wing lunacy that is heavily contributed to by Soros and his ilk.
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
Politics is like an onion: The more layers you peel away, the harder you cry.
Amen...
RobG
Well-known member
I'd say the Wilkes and Kochs have counter funding of Soros well covered.
Why should a gun group work the flanks of the extractive industries at the expense of wildlife habitat? Extra funding isn't a good enough reason. If anything they should be working the hunting/habitat side, not against it.
PDR - Everything in that report is footnoted and fact-checked. The things you point to are all executive actions that occurred or can occur because the President is using the authority that he was given by congress. Many people warned during the early 2000's that instilling the executive with that much power would be problematic, but conservatives did it anyway in an effort to "fight terror."
The investments made by the O&G industry in the NRA, SCI & CSF have paid dividends as outlined in that report. If you can't see that, then you are letting your politics cloud your cognitive abilities.
As for renwables and bird deaths, you bet your butt it's hypocritical of the Fed to allow for the deaths of raptors due to wind farms while holding the other industry to a higher standard. But that's not the case. The O&G industry still kills hundreds of thousands of birds each year. A lot of waterfowl is killed in sludge ponds, etc and while a fine is paid, it still occurs across the country.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
As my twelve-year old grandson and I completed Montana FWP Hunter Education earlier in April, I showed him my NRA Hunter Safety Handbook and my NRA Hunter Safety Course certificate earned in Great Falls in 1957. It emphasized the four primary gun handling safety rules the same then as now.
The big difference from the NRA focus on gun safety and promoting shooting sports back then is that now NRA places emphasis on politics, lobbying efforts, and opposing the "jack-booted thugs" of the federal government. I would again support NRA if there was even a modest effort to return to the healthy focus on gun safety and shooting sports.
It does not surprise me to see the NRA accept money from any direction in the effort to bolster political causes.
The big difference from the NRA focus on gun safety and promoting shooting sports back then is that now NRA places emphasis on politics, lobbying efforts, and opposing the "jack-booted thugs" of the federal government. I would again support NRA if there was even a modest effort to return to the healthy focus on gun safety and shooting sports.
It does not surprise me to see the NRA accept money from any direction in the effort to bolster political causes.
sbhooper
Well-known member
Whether you like it or not, you do not fight any fight without funding. Energy exploration and development is a necessary evil and overall, has not badly damaged many of the habitats. The "clean" energy is no panacea, either. Many of the people involved with energy are outdoorsmen and are also concerned with protecting the land.
There is no easy answer, but I would rather have the war chests of energy companies behind me than the left-wing idiots that want every square inch of land turned into national parks with no chance at using the land for energy independence.
I agree that it's a necessary evil, but let's be honest: The policies being advocated for would severely limit protections for wildlife on public lands. HR 1581, etc would essentially eliminate Roadless Areas, which are scientifically proven to wildlife generators.
There has been a huge reduction in regulations in the Northern Rockies due to the push by O&G industry lobbyists during the Coal-Bed Methane Boom, Nat Gas plays and now the Bakken. To think that the O&G industry is looking out for hunters is fairly naive.
I'm also sure that the NREPA crowd,who really does want to lock up everything, isn't going to prevail. But I'd rather fight them and their small war chests than the untold billions from the industry that looks to eliminate all protections from public lands.
WV Hunter
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
- Messages
- 1,763
As an NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection Inside the Home & Personal Protection Outside the Home Instructor as well as an NRA Range Safety Officer I would say "you crazy".
The NRA-ILA on the other hand......
HSi-ESi
Well-known member
I'm going to try and phrase this to not sound like a left-wing wing-nut (because I'm really not).
Energy Independence is a crazy myth that will really only benefit a select few. Think about the massive waste of resources our society currently spends shipping goods around the country. There's no way we will be completely energy independent (and I understand the logic in becoming independent). Trusting corporations to manage our public resources is an invitation to disaster. Sportsman worked really hard to get wildlife populations where they are today - why on earth would we want to give that up?
I always think about this Carlin skit when it comes to energy independence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
And yes, I am a hypocrite when it comes to hunting stuff.
Energy Independence is a crazy myth that will really only benefit a select few. Think about the massive waste of resources our society currently spends shipping goods around the country. There's no way we will be completely energy independent (and I understand the logic in becoming independent). Trusting corporations to manage our public resources is an invitation to disaster. Sportsman worked really hard to get wildlife populations where they are today - why on earth would we want to give that up?
I always think about this Carlin skit when it comes to energy independence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
And yes, I am a hypocrite when it comes to hunting stuff.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
and
WV Hunter, when's the last time your program was the focus of an NRA fund drive or even made the news?
If it was really about energy independence, we wouldn't be exporting refined fuels, crude oil, coal or natural gas. If it were really about energy security, we'd have nationalized energy by now, like we have the military.
The only thing that drives industry is profit. Which is fine, that's how capitalism works. But let's be honest and call it what it is. The banner of energy security has been waived for a long time now, and industry has proven that they don't care about America's energy future so much as their future profit.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
What drives .gov Ben?
pointingdogsrule
Well-known member
So I read the report: I especially looked for the quote represented in my original statement: "Taken together, these investments have helped defeat climate
change legislation in Congress, preserve tax subsidies for oil and gas companies, slow and weaken environmental protection rules, and pressure federal officials to further expand and accelerate oil and gas leasing on public lands." I noticed that there NO footnote after that quote. A very broad statement to say the least.
I agree Ben that the oil & gas industry kills birds in these sludge ponds and it should NOT be. The O&G pay fines as should all the clean energy people, no exemptions. That's agreed between us. I hate to see those Golden Eagles killed
I also agree that the O&G "investments" pay returns for the companies. Right or wrong it's still legal in America..... at least the last time I looked.
Last , if president "is" using his executive orders..... how can the O&G companies be such a big problem? The POTUS can just by-pass these companies.
Ben: I agree that there are valid points in that article..... what gets me is the broad statement that I bold faced (and is not foot-noted).
good luck to all
the dog
pointingdogsrule
Well-known member
A question for Ben:
If these O&G companies are bad (I believe that they are essential), what is the alternative? Shall we shut down all gas and oil exploration? Shall we stop driving cars, trains, heating homes, shut factories down? No transportation, no plastics, no energy??? I would like to see this country survive for one day with out the oil and gas energy (Coal also).
Seems to me it is a "necessary evil". So it comes down to how we meet a "happy medium". Co-existence of the O&G and the people who rely on these needs while protecting our outdoors.
Always interested in your viewpoint.
By the way, I was smiling when I saw the photograph on the cover of the report you cite. Seems that oil & gas companies CAN co-exist with wildlife. The antelope look pretty well at home new that drill rig. The two are not mutually exclusive.
good luck to all
the dog
If these O&G companies are bad (I believe that they are essential), what is the alternative? Shall we shut down all gas and oil exploration? Shall we stop driving cars, trains, heating homes, shut factories down? No transportation, no plastics, no energy??? I would like to see this country survive for one day with out the oil and gas energy (Coal also).
Seems to me it is a "necessary evil". So it comes down to how we meet a "happy medium". Co-existence of the O&G and the people who rely on these needs while protecting our outdoors.
Always interested in your viewpoint.
By the way, I was smiling when I saw the photograph on the cover of the report you cite. Seems that oil & gas companies CAN co-exist with wildlife. The antelope look pretty well at home new that drill rig. The two are not mutually exclusive.
good luck to all
the dog
RobG
Well-known member
I'm not sure where you are coming from, but let me give my view. I don't mind where the NRA (or any political force) gets its money as long as it is only used to advance gun rights issues.
Unfortunately the NRA has been supporting some questionable programs out here that have a lot to do with oil and gas and little to do with gun rights. It's been puzzling why they have been supporting those issues, but it is a reason why many people out here don't support the NRA. Now I see a logical connection. I hope it isn't true, but it appears to be.
It is an accurate statement. O&G lobbyists have worked to stop climate change legislation. Nothing has passed Congress regarding climate change largley due to the hundreds of millions of dollars the industry has spent lobbying congress. The office of Minerals & Mines in the BLM was recently cited for a drugs & sex for permits scandal that stretches back to the early 2000's. There has been a revolving door between industry and the people who are supposed to be regulators. In Wyoming, Cheney would call weekly to the BLM and give them the number of wells that were to be permitted. That is indue influence by the executive. O&G leasing on public land was Cat Exed at one point, meaning no environmental impact for expanding fields, etc, would happen at industries request.
It's all verifiable and easily fact checked.
First of all, I have no problem with companies making money. I'm invested in several energy companies and appreciate the return on that investment. That doesn't mean I'm going to quit telling them that they need to stop trying to eliminate regulations on public land or try to eliminate public land altogether.
In regards to POTUS & Executive Orders - there are some things he can't do - like reinstate funding for inspectors that Congress cut because they don't want anyone checking up on industry. POTUS has done some very good things in regards to development on public land like direct the BLM to look at landscape scale development instead of focusing on single wells, as it has been under previous administrations.
I refuse to accept this position. I'm not anti-development. I'm anti-give it all away. I want oil & gas development on public land because we absolutely need it. I also don't want to give away our mule deer, sage grouse, elk, bighorns, etc that live on public land because some corporation decides their bottom line is more important than our collective public land legacy. You can have both, but it requires sacrifice on all parts, not just the public's.
Pronghorn seem to do ok around development. Mule deer do not. Neither do elk. Sage Grouse do not do well around o&g development at all. You cannot look at one photograph and say that wildlife does just fine around development. The Wyoming Range mule deer herd has declined over 50% due to development on winter range, as outlined in the industry's own studies.
Like I always say, you can have development on these lands and retain the wildlife resource. How you do that means shared sacrifice during development. Shared sacrifice to this point has primarily meant that wildlife and hunters take it in the shorts.
And that's why it should be extremely disconcerting that the industry is trying desperately to co-opt the message of mainstream sporting organizations.
The NRA, SCI & CSF won't stand up against their major donors. They advance policies and legislation that erode our public lands and our public wildlife legacies rather than try to work with groups who are advocating for long seasons and abundant wildlife.
The NRA, SCI & CSF won't stand up against their major donors. They advance policies and legislation that erode our public lands and our public wildlife legacies rather than try to work with groups who are advocating for long seasons and abundant wildlife.
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