What age to be a millionaire?

[gouch]

A lot of people in the trades did go to community college to get started. They have a huge advantage over someone with just a HS diploma walking onto a job site and asking for a job.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Yah for sure but even without union representation they still have benefits. A lot of which aren't much better bennies than offered at the white collar level with the degree requirement. Non union doesn't mean non benefits.

There exist v. most

Most do not, which is why people have huge medical debt, no savings, etc.

Which again a specific career doesn't indicate education, and since there are 40%+ of the workforce has degrees, it means that HS applicants are out competed for the better jobs in a particular field.

Not my opinion this is just what that data I posted above is showing.

 

[TN2shot07]

Which is college v. trades and not working at Walmart for minimum wage instead starting a trade.

My point is if trades just require a HS degree than why is there such a high demand and why don't folks with hs degrees take those roles.

That point was in my second answer. Most trades do only require a HS diploma but there’s still a barrier to entry. Often some kind of apprenticeship (lineman, electrician, plumbing, carpentry) and it’s going to require an serious investment of time and labor. It’s not as simple as walking into Wally World or Starbucks and slapping down an application.

 

[Irrelevant]

I've argued that college provides no measurable benefit and that good workers will be good workers with or without a college degree. But I will absolutely encourage my kids to go to college, because it (unfortunately) opens a shitton more doors than not having one. Like many HTers you can have a degree and still be a skilled tradesman if that's the route you choose. I got absolutely zero knowledge from college that has been useful. But I'd never have my job without, it was a box checked that opened a door. So in my mind college is philosophically irrelevant for more white collar work, but practically a requirement.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I've argued that college provides no measurable benefit and that good workers will be good workers with or without a college degree. But I will absolutely encourage my kids to go to college, because it (unfortunately) opens a shitton more doors than not having one. Like many HTers you can have a degree and still be a skilled tradesman if that's the route you choose. I got absolutely zero knowledge from college that has been useful. But I'd never have my job without, it was a box checked that opened a door. So in my mind college is philosophically irrelevant for more white collar work, but practically a requirement.

For me it was the exact opposite, exactly relevant, but I think it depends on your route and job.

I know art history and WAGS majors that are making mid 6 figures in their field and folks who have those degrees that work in fields where those degrees are irrelevant.

I think the national average skews towards your experience which is a part of why we are seeing a backlash.

 

[TN2shot07]

I've argued that college provides no measurable benefit and that good workers will be good workers with or without a college degree. But I will absolutely encourage my kids to go to college, because it (unfortunately) opens a shitton more doors than not having one. Like many HTers you can have a degree and still be a skilled tradesman if that's the route you choose. I got absolutely zero knowledge from college that has been useful. But I'd never have my job without, it was a box checked that opened a door. So in my mind college is philosophically irrelevant for more white collar work, but practically a requirement.

That’s absolutely been my experience. I kept books in high school and through college and could’ve done the “Accountant” jobs I’ve had since graduating from college without my degree but I would’ve never gotten in the door without the piece of paper. When we hire people I’m much more interested in work ethic than where they graduated from, we can teach them

 

[Irrelevant]

I know art history and WAGS majors that are making mid 6 figures in their field and folks who have those degrees that work in fields where those degrees are irrelevant.

Which supports that college degree is a check mark on a form to get your foot in the door. I currently have an employee with a great piece of paper that has proven to be rather useless.

Again, our own personal experiences always skew our beliefs. I had a far superior HS education than anything I received in college.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Which supports that college degree is a check mark on a form to get your foot in the door. I currently have an employee with a great piece of paper that has proven to be rather useless.

Or doesn't for the former in my statement.

Again, our own personal experiences always skew our beliefs.

Yep, I had 2 decent teachers in HS (thank goodness) but otherwise it was kinda a joke. First year of college was rough as the expectations were vastly higher.

 

[Nick87]

They have a huge advantage over someone with just a HS diploma walking onto a job site and asking for a job.

Walking on a job site looking for a job, experience is going to be the advantage over anyone else, far and above a degree of any kind.

To further that, any sort of military background is usually going to advance you over a degree as well.

 

[RobG]

@neffa3
Tell me those don’t look good (they are).

 

[buckbull]

Which is college v. trades and not working at Walmart for minimum wage instead starting a trade.

My point is if trades just require a HS degree than why is there such a high demand and why don't folks with hs degrees take those roles.

My ex father in law was a project manager for a large commercial general contractor. Union shop that built large commercial buildings like grocery stores, Walgreens, etc. He said the biggest challenge to hiring was finding guys that could pass a drug test. Next up was finding guys that would actually show up on time.

 

[SAJ-99]

Back to the $1m question
If you were retiring today, age 60, would you prefer
a) $1,000,000 in the bank with full control of it, or
b) $4800/mo (with COLA ($1800 SS, $3000 pension)

Keep all other things equal- house is paid for, kids are gone and self-sufficient etc. The only decision is based on retirement income, which is actually a decision on risk. You can get a steady stream of income and not think about it or have to invest it yourself and deal with market and rate ups and downs.

 

[Nick87]

My ex father in law was a project manager for a large commercial general contractor. Union shop that built large commercial buildings like grocery stores, Walgreens, etc. He said the biggest challenge to hiring was finding guys that could pass a drug test. Next up was finding guys that would actually show up on time.

Every year our local has to turn down a ton of applicants for apprenticeship that can't pass a drug test. Obviously they don't want it very bad since they know in advance there's going to be a screening.

 

[Nick87]

kids are gone and self-sufficient etc

Totally kidding but couldn't help myself.

 

[Beignet]

Walmart
FedEx
Home Depot
Kroger

Don't have unions that I know of, only 25% of Starbucks stores are unionized... yada yada yada

Most unions jobs are classified as skilled labor eg. UAW

Kroger has been unionized for a long time. Bagging groceries there was one of two places in my hometown that used to hire 14 year olds. Lots of my friends got indoctrinated to the scary socialisms at an early age being young buck union members there.

I goofed by going the non-union route and spent a few months working in the kitchen at McDonald’s instead. It was a pretty terrible job. Now a firm believer that children should enjoy their youth and don’t need to wear out their little bootstraps before they can drive.

 

[SAJ-99]

Every year our local has to turn down a ton of applicants for apprenticeship that can't pass a drug test. Obviously they don't want it very bad since they know in advance there's going to be a screening.

I find it interesting how some trades people try to encourage people into the trades.The salary level is all supply and demand. If I was a 30yo electrician making great money, I would encourage people to be plumbers.

 

[noharleyyet]

Back to the $1m question
If you were retiring today, age 60, would you prefer
a) $1,000,000 in the bank with full control of it, or
b) $4800/mo (with COLA ($1800 SS, $3000 pension)

Keep all other things equal- house is paid for, kids are gone and self-sufficient etc. The only decision is based on retirement income, which is actually a decision on risk. You can get a steady stream of income and not think about it or have to invest it yourself and deal with market and rate ups and downs.

As a card carrying Boomer I prefer both a) and b)

 

[Nick87]

I find it interesting how some trades people try to encourage people into the trades.The salary level is all supply and demand. If I was a 30yo electrician making great money, I would encourage people to be plumbers.

Our local keeps track of how many applicants to accept every year based on how many up and coming retirees we have and the foreseeable workload. If there's jobs that we can't fill there's a chance that work will go to a non union company. The better our performance the better our raises will be. It's not in my best interest to have more competition, but we're gonna accept x amount of applicants anyway. So, it is in my best interest to encourage quality candidates that have a good work ethic and are willing to learn. Non union possibly a different scenario.

 

[brymoore]

Back to the $1m question
If you were retiring today, age 60, would you prefer
a) $1,000,000 in the bank with full control of it, or
b) $4800/mo (with COLA ($1800 SS, $3000 pension)

Keep all other things equal- house is paid for, kids are gone and self-sufficient etc. The only decision is based on retirement income, which is actually a decision on risk. You can get a steady stream of income and not think about it or have to invest it yourself and deal with market and rate ups and downs.

I’d take the cash. The annual return on the cash would need to approach 6% to be comparable.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I find it interesting how some trades people try to encourage people into the trades.The salary level is all supply and demand. If I was a 30yo electrician making great money, I would encourage people to be plumbers.

I work in an industry that Gen-z hates and apparently we all hate college now.

I've loving the dual narratives as they pertain to my continued earning potential.