WARNING: Student Load Forgiveness is Very Unlikely to Pay for Your Next Elk Tag

[Deleted member 28227]

@Wind Gypsy

I graduated HS in 06' cost for me if I had attended CU v. genZ

2006


2023




Tuition at CU since I was in HS (millennial) has dramatically outstripped inflation, with the price more than doubling.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Wow - send me the name of that bank.

Current online savings account interest rates:

Best Savings Accounts Of January 2025 - Up to 4.75% | Bankrate

Compare savings accounts to find the best rates. Bankrate's experts have identified the highest savings account interest rates from top banks to help you maximize your earnings.

www.bankrate.com

But yeah, I agree you should always compare the value of your $$ in different places. But remember, the principal you didn't pay off is carrying 6+% interest for the next 10 yrs after the forbearance period ends so it isn't just comparing to savings return (unless of course you take the savings and pay the principal on the last day of forbearance.).

The bolded is exactly what i'm saying. If monthly payments were dumped into an online savings account rather than paying down interest over this time, you come out ahead with the interest as more $ to pay down the principal + have a chance of getting forgiveness before paying it off.

This is basically what we're doing with my wife's remaining balance.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

@Wind Gypsy

I graduated HS in 06' cost for me to attend CU v. genZ

2006
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2023
View attachment 266716

View attachment 266717

Tuition at CU since I was in HS (millennial) has dramatically outstripped inflation, with the price more than doubling.

Yeah, that paints a pretty clear picture of cost increases and I don't disagree with the vast majority of your points about how an education should be more affordable. That said, I still think people are playing the victim for their own decisions way too much.

So boulder is very expensive to live in but people couldn't save a bunch of money commuting to school? Are there not a handful of state schools in CO in areas with a lower cost of living?

My wife got her biology undergrad from an expensive private school in '12 and her masters in enviro policy a few years later. She got some scholarship help on the undergrad and some employer cost share on the masters but she had a pretty hefty loan balance. She has never really used either degree professionally, made $50-75k 2013-2019, and still managed to have the loans chipped down to a little over $20k by the time we got married in '20. So she was a great example of overpaying for an education that didn't land her a good salary but still was not crippled by student loans because she never felt the need to spend herself into a crisis.

 

[DouglasR]

^^^
Dude 100% only skis on Presidents day weekend.-L
Drops a rack at the cafeteria for him and his kids at lunch.-L
Pays for parking.-L
Pays $5 for a pbr.-L
$12 for a Bloody Mary.-L
Says things like “your lifts seem to stop frequently”.-L
Is a known member of “Montec nation”-L
Wllm ruined this movie for me.
He’s not Matt Damon!

 

[jryoung]

If you walked into a bank at 18 and asked for 100k for a car, truck, house or other tangible asset that you can actually sell, you’d be laughed out of the place.
But they’ll give you that money to buy “ideas” lol
#thispointhasbeenmadeamilliontimes
#beatingadeadhorse
#addingnovaluetotheconversation

And the question is why have the underwriters determined that these loans are better than others? What additional security do they have that makes them lower risk than others?

 

[BuzzH]

Can anyone name the highest paid State employee in Michigan?

Either football or basketball coach, just like most states.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Either football or basketball coach, just like most states.

Reminds me of the Babe Ruth quote, “I had a better year.”

 

[VikingsGuy]

It gets even worse!

The One Parenting Decision That Really Matters

Almost none of the choices you make are as fraught as you think they are.

www.theatlantic.com

TLdnr

The upshot is the neighborhood a kid is raised in has the second biggest effect (after the genetics of the parents).

“Three of the biggest predictors that a neighborhood will increase a child’s success are the percentage of households in which there are two parents, the percentage of residents who are college graduates, and the percentage of residents who return their census forms. These are neighborhoods, in other words, with many role models: adults who are smart, accomplished, engaged in their community, and committed to stable family lives.” Poor neighborhoods and rural areas just didn’t stack up.

 

[406dn]

First quarter at NDSU, tuition and fees $264. Paid for it with summer job money. How times have changed. Now I will spend more on my kid's college than my father earned in his lifetime. That NDSU diploma has paid off with an amazing ROI.

I knew I was older than you. My time at NDSU, tuition was $145 each quarter. Perhaps they went to semesters by your time.

It was a bargain by any measure. I paid as I went, graduated with zero debt. I worked 15-20 hrs week during school, 35 hr/week during the summer at a grocery store.

 

[BuzzH]

TLdnr

The upshot is the neighborhood a kid is raised in has the second biggest effect (after the genetics of the parents).

“Three of the biggest predictors that a neighborhood will increase a child’s success are the percentage of households in which there are two parents, the percentage of residents who are college graduates, and the percentage of residents who return their census forms. These are neighborhoods, in other words, with many role models: adults who are smart, accomplished, engaged in their community, and committed to stable family lives.” Poor neighborhoods and rural areas just didn’t stack up.

Right, and we're going to never break those trends, or even have a minimal chance to improve it by allowing Colleges to charge outrageous tuition.

Its pretty clear college has become a have's VS have not's situation and has greatly accelerated since I went to college starting in 1988.

A motivated kid from a poor neighborhood and single parent household is largely hosed or severely limited.

No part of that is correct, right, or fair.

I didn't come from a college educated household, very middle class, and the ONLY reason I went to college is because I could work enough in the summers to pay for it myself. My parents were in no position to pay for my college, not a chance.

Given the same household in 2023 that I grew up in the 80's...College may as well be offered on the moon. No way myself and family could swing it...not happening.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Right, and we're going to never break those trends, or even have a minimal chance to improve it by allowing Colleges to charge outrageous tuition.

Its pretty clear college has become a have's VS have not's situation and has greatly accelerated since I went to college starting in 1988.

A motivated kid from a poor neighborhood and single parent household is largely hosed or severely limited.

No part of that is correct, right, or fair.

I didn't come from a college educated household, very middle class, and the ONLY reason I went to college is because I could work enough in the summers to pay for it myself. My parents were in no position to pay for my college, not a chance.

Given the same household in 2023 that I grew up in the 80's...College may as well be offered on the moon. No way myself and family could swing it...not happening.

Interestingly, a smart poor kid with the tiniest bit of guidance actually has a great chance at a completely free university education, incl room and board.

It has gone from a system that helped the upper and middle, to a system that helps the top and the bottom. Once again, the middle gets the shaft.

 

[BuzzH]

Interestingly, a smart poor kid with the tiniest bit of guidance actually has a great chance at a completely free university education, incl room and board.

It has gone from a system that helped the upper and middle, to a system that helps the top and the bottom. Once again, the middle gets the shaft.

That's what everyone says, as quickly as you can name 2-3 that you personally know of that graduated college with no debt that were smart and poor.

I know a fair few people that are well below middle income...and I can't name one that went to college.

Even if what you're saying is in fact a true(ish) statement, how many people from a poor background, with iffy or single parents, actually even know the hoops to jump through to attend?

Unless things have really changed since I went, the College system isn't exactly what I would call user friendly.

 

[SAJ-99]

@wllm
Enrollment at Boulder Campus grew at about 1.3% (other campuses obviously higher). Do those campuses have the same reputation as Boulder? I'm sure costs went up much more. Google say CU acceptance rate is still at 80%. Should alumni want lower tuition costs and higher acceptance rates and enrollment? I have struggled with these types of moves by colleges when they start offer online and weekend degrees. They are trying to meet demand, but is it the same education?

 

[Deleted member 18333]

A motivated kid from a poor neighborhood and single parent household is largely hosed or severely limited.

Completely agree. But the crap that kid has to overcome prior to even thinking about college is almost insurmountable.

Many things need to change for that kid to succeed. Higher Ed costs is only one hurdle.

 

[Dakotakid]

i'd venture a guess that it is mr. harbaugh

7.8 million a year.

 

[sclancy27]

The biggest issue here is that a generation (boomer) got any college degree and had a pulse they were guaranteed a well-paying upper-middle class job. This generation then informed the generations below of the positives of ANY college degree. The govt (same generation, mostly) helped subsidize college for the same reasons. So, demand for college SKYROCKETED. When demand for anything skyrockets, you get incredible increases in price, and generally decreases in quality as supply tries to match (see housing in boom areas). Now, include the inherent ability of the govt to colossally dick up everything, and you got what we got right meow.

I have 2 college degrees (Ecology and Civil Engineering) and paid my debt (Millennial). I went to a good in-state school and lived cheap. Several of my buddies used their loans to finance trips to Mexico, wherever. Let them declare bankruptcy, that makes more sense than waving your hand and *poof* there goes 20K. Especially when the proposed cost of those student loans (4-500 billi) would finance half the $$$ needed in nuclear infrastructure to create all of our needed electricity in the US.....

 

[noharleyyet]

7.8 million a year.

U-M football generates the third highest revenue among college football teams in the United States, pulling in $122.3 million per year, according to the U.S. Department of Education, thanks to ticket sales, licensing agreements and television rights.

The University of Michigan athletic department reported a $17.1 million operating surplus for the 2021-22 fiscal year, according to a financial report obtained by USA TODAY.

The department created $210,652,287 in operating revenues compared to $193,559,375 in expenses for the fiscal year from July 1, 2021, to June 30, 2022. It's the first time U-M has exceed $200 million (without adjusting for inflation) in annual operating revenue in one year — the previous high was $197.8 million in the fiscal year of 2019.

University of Michigan athletic department: $17.1 million surplus for 2022 fiscal year

The University of Michigan athletic department has most profitable year in decade in 2022 after losing nearly $50 million in 2021.

www.freep.com

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@wllm
Enrollment at Boulder Campus grew at about 1.3% (other campuses obviously higher). Do those campuses have the same reputation as Boulder? I'm sure costs went up much more. Google say CU acceptance rate is still at 80%. Should alumni want lower tuition costs and higher acceptance rates and enrollment? I have struggled with these types of moves by colleges when they start offer online and weekend degrees. They are trying to meet demand, but is it the same education?


View attachment 266732

There definitely different institutions, I mean Anschutz is the medical school for one thing.

Certainly as our population grows you want to keep the proportion of 'professionals' the same, which means increase enrollment. That being said, perhaps producing graduates currently and we should have much lower acceptance rates.

 

[BrentD]

I knew I was older than you. My time at NDSU, tuition was $145 each quarter. Perhaps they went to semesters by your time.

It was a bargain by any measure. I paid as I went, graduated with zero debt. I worked 15-20 hrs week during school, 35 hr/week during the summer at a grocery store.

Neither really paid for all of your tuition - or at least not all of the costs of your education. All the state institutions, pretty much nationwide, I believe, greatly subsidized the cost of running the universities. Tuition, back in your day, was a minority part of the universities' budget. But higher ed became a whipping post starting with the Reagan era and year after year, budgets were slashed. Even during the gravy years of the 90s, budgets were being hammered right and left.

NOW, tuition is the majority contributor to most universities' budgets and the state pays much less. It's not that universities spend more (some do, most don't in inflation adjusted dollars). They have to make up for that lost revenue with increased tuition (and of course "fees"). And no, the football team doesn't make up for that lost revenue. At all.

I'll leave you to speculate on what are the colors of the states have the worse support of their higher (and usually middle and lower) ed.

If I was a little more wllm, I would dig out a graphical for my ex-university. It is pretty stunning, and we were the leader in the Walmartization of higher ed. For years, we undercut tuition by cutting expenditures (faculty, majors, maintenance, anything but the football and basketball programs), to the point it was cheaper to be an out of state student at ISU than it was to be in state at NE, MN, IL, MO, (our surrounding states) and a host of others across the nation. Our enrollment shot up 50% in just a couple of years. But we could not sustain that.

 

[406dn]

Neither really paid for all of your tuition - or at least not all of the costs of your education. All the state institutions, pretty much nationwide, I believe, greatly subsidized the cost of running the universities. Tuition, back in your day, was a minority part of the universities' budget. But higher ed became a whipping post starting with the Reagan era and year after year, budgets were slashed. Even during the gravy years of the 90s, budgets were being hammered right and left.

NOW, tuition is the majority contributor to most universities' budgets and the state pays much less. It's not that universities spend more (some do, most don't in inflation adjusted dollars). They have to make up for that lost revenue with increased tuition (and of course "fees"). And no, the football team doesn't make up for that lost revenue. At all.

I'll leave you to speculate on what are the colors of the states have the worse support of their higher (and usually middle and lower) ed.

If I was a little more wllm, I would dig out a graphical for my ex-university. It is pretty stunning, and we were the leader in the Walmartization of higher ed. For years, we undercut tuition by cutting expenditures (faculty, majors, maintenance, anything but the football and basketball programs), to the point it was cheaper to be an out of state student at ISU than it was to be in state at NE, MN, IL, MO, (our surrounding states) and a host of others across the nation. Our enrollment shot up 50% in just a couple of years. But we could not sustain that.

I'm pretty certain we were making that point indirectly. Early in the thread I copped a plea that my generation has incrementally defunded higher education, leaving the individual student and parents to make up the difference.