Utah's Plan to Manage and Sell Public Land

[authentichunter]

Rep. Mike Noel, one of Utah's most notorious state representatives, has introduced his plan to manage public lands in the event that Utah's lawsuit to seize control of public land in Utah succeeds. Noel admits that "[Utah] may have to sell off some lands," but explains that the bar for selling public lands will be high, e.g. any proposal to sell public lands would require approval from two-thirds of both the house and senate in Utah's legislature.

For those unfamiliar with Utah politics: Utah's legislature is dominated by one party, the same party that is currently pushing for the transfer of public lands. Utah's legislature is comprised of twenty-nine (29) senators and seventy-five (75) representatives. Of the current 104 members of the legislature, eighty-seven (87) belong to the same party. Twenty-four (24) of the twenty-nine (29) senators belong to the same party, and sixty-three (63) of the seventy-five (75) representatives belong to the same party. Two-thirds approval in the senate would require only twenty (20) votes and two-thirds in the in house would require only fifty-one (50) votes. Consequently, under Noel's proposal, the two-thirds "super hurdle" that will "protect" public land from becoming private is nothing more than a routine vote in Utah's legislature.

Of course, Noel and those of his ilk know this.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/3503931-155/values-of-the-resource-is-focus

 

[mplane72]

Disturbing. At least there's no sign of support for this idea in the comments section.

 

[Gr8bawana]

The dominating "party"? It's ok to tell it like it is and call them Republicans.

 

[u1299]

So what's the deal with Utah, no public land hunters living in that State for crying out loud, or very few at best? Must be the case otherwise how in the hell do you explain so damn many anti-hunter Republicans in their legislature. I hope it's not because Utah hunters are as stupid as the rest of the voters in that State appear to be. Easy to beat up on Utah I guess, Montana is damn near as bad, we barely have enough of the Good Guys (Democrats) in our legislature to field a baseball team which is why we're in the same boat they are. Thank God for Steve Bullock, because right now he's the only thing saving us from our Jack A-- Republican controlled legislature, and I'm not at all confident Montana voters have enough common sense to keep him as Governor. We'll see how many negative comments I get to prove whether or not my fears are warranted.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Not a big surprise, but I'm in for Bullock. Dude earned a second term, even if we fight over elk.

 

[Big Fin]

So what's the deal with Utah, no public land hunters living in that State for crying out loud, or very few at best? Must be the case otherwise how in the hell do you explain so damn many anti-hunter Republicans in their legislature. I hope it's not because Utah hunters are as stupid as the rest of the voters in that State appear to be. Easy to beat up on Utah I guess, Montana is damn near as bad, we barely have enough of the Good Guys (Democrats) in our legislature to field a baseball team which is why we're in the same boat they are. Thank God for Steve Bullock, because right now he's the only thing saving us from our Jack A-- Republican controlled legislature, and I'm not at all confident Montana voters have enough common sense to keep him as Governor. We'll see how many negative comments I get to prove whether or not my fears are warranted.

I get what you are saying, but in Montana, your broad use in dividing along party lines cuts out about 8-10 Republicans who have been very good on our issues and are fighting against their own party on some of these topics. My caution is to not label the supporters or advocates of our cause strictly on party lines. In doing so, it only plays to the hands of the fringe and leaves the good guys fighting for our cause within their party with no support, which human nature would cause them to conclude, "Eff it. I get no appreciation of sticking my neck out, so I'll just pitch my tent on the fringe with the rest of them."

 

[Ben Lamb]

Amen, Randy. We are building a solid coalition of bi-partisan support for public land. Some of them might surprise folks.

 

[Big Foot]

Bullock is getting my vote. I am disappointed in his shoulder season circus but without him the pile of chit we are being served would be much larger.

 

[Big Foot]

Anyone want to name some of Republicans in the Montana legislature fighting the good fight for sportsman? I am happy to support them as well. Hopefully one is in my district.

 

[Big Fin]

Anyone want to name some of Republicans in the Montana legislature fighting the good fight for sportsman? I am happy to support them as well. Hopefully one is in my district.

Pat Connell, Lew Jones, Rob Cook, Jeff Wellborn, quickly come to mind.

I remember Kelly Flynn, an outfitter from Townsend, in 2013, casting the deciding vote to reject a bill that would have given outfitters a special group of tags in Wilderness Areas. He got fried by his fellow R's, the bill sponsor, and his fellow outfitters. I made sure to tell him that I admired his vote and his rationale about it. He later told me the thanks were very few and the irate calls were plenty. Events like that serve to remind me that when someone stands up, they need some accolades to the same degree they get criticism when they don't stand up.

Read this article where the Republican dark money machine went after one of their own, Frank Garner, last year in his home town of Kalispell while he was in Helena serving in the legislature.

http://flatheadbeacon.com/2015/02/06/conservative-group-targets-kalispell-lawmaker-medicaid/

Again, it is dark money buying power within the party leadership, resulting in the party leadership being beholden to those monied interests, and then theses same leaders embarking on an ideological cleansing operation the likes of which this state has never seen.

This was the game plan set forth by Balyeat, Sales, Barrett, Kearns, Brenden, Denough, and the other ideologues back around 2003. It took them ten years, but they accomplished it by destroying a lot of their former friends in the party and a ton of outside money. Balyeat is now the big cheese at Americans For Prosperity, the group that went after Garner in the link above. Balyeat used to rail against using Legislative or Congressional connections as a spring board to great jobs elsewhere. Pot, meet Kettle.

Notice to any on the fringe - If you sing me the Montana Republican Party tune as orchestrated by the crooks leading the outfit, expect a lot of rebuttal with advance warning that language maybe adult rated.

 

[Big Fin]

Back to the original topic - Utah.

 

[authentichunter]

I would like to see a list of Utah legislators who are proponents of public land. The legislators who are hostile towards public land are easy to spot, but the legislators who are supporters of public land seem harder to identify.

 

[u1299]

Just my opinion but seems to me this whole crowd who seem to be hostile toward our public lands have a very common theme they continually rant about, that being what I contend is their hatred of the Federal Government. You've heard the saying from the conservative leaning crowd that anything the Federal government can do, the private sector can do better. Sorry, I don't buy that claim, never have, but a lot of people do. Are the Feds perfect, no they are not, but neither is the so called private sector. If you buy into their rhetoric the Federal Government is a good for nothing bleep- bleep-bleep and the private sector has all the answers are you surprised your public lands and your wildlife are on their hit list? One thing that puzzled me and got by blood boiling during the Oregon Militia takeover was how even some of the locals said even though they wanted the takeover to end and the Bundys to go home they too had issues with the BLM and Federal Governments management of Federal Lands. I seriously doubt if you put them on the spot and asked them for an example, they could give you one, because most are just regurgitating the fringes talking points because quite honestly I think some people just are incapable of thinking for themselves. I won't call them stupid, just pathetically gullible. I have no problem with the governments management nor the fact they(we) own 60, 70, 80 or even 90% of a State. I'm sure there are plenty of things the Government can do better and it's silly to think we should agree with them on every issue, cripes I don't agree with my wife on every issue but I don't berate her 24/7 and would never advocate selling her!

 

[OriginalOscar]

Just my opinion but seems to me this whole crowd who seem to be hostile toward our public lands have a very common theme they continually rant about, that being what I contend is their hatred of the Federal Government. You've heard the saying from the conservative leaning crowd that anything the Federal government can do, the private sector can do better. Sorry, I don't buy that claim, never have, but a lot of people do. Are the Feds perfect, no they are not, but neither is the so called private sector. If you buy into their rhetoric the Federal Government is a good for nothing bleep- bleep-bleep and the private sector has all the answers are you surprised your public lands and your wildlife are on their hit list? One thing that puzzled me and got by blood boiling during the Oregon Militia takeover was how even some of the locals said even though they wanted the takeover to end and the Bundys to go home they too had issues with the BLM and Federal Governments management of Federal Lands. I seriously doubt if you put them on the spot and asked them for an example, they could give you one, because most are just regurgitating the fringes talking points because quite honestly I think some people just are incapable of thinking for themselves. I won't call them stupid, just pathetically gullible. I have no problem with the governments management nor the fact they(we) own 60, 70, 80 or even 90% of a State. I'm sure there are plenty of things the Government can do better and it's silly to think we should agree with them on every issue, cripes I don't agree with my wife on every issue but I don't berate her 24/7 and would never advocate selling her!

Dead on. I go to every meeting my legislators hold and the anti government attitude spins into the land issue. I live in an area with many sportsmen and they never show up. It's the PTA, Constitutional Crazies, Old Ladies, and Cub Scouts who attend.

The public support for that position is tied to Republican leadership constantly beating that drum, a belief the state would make billions to help education our kids which we have more per household than anywhere.

Sadly I don't know what or if there is any solution. What does frustrate me is the constant whine on these sites and most of these people couldn't name who their legislators are; let alone confront them about this issue.

Personally I feel the best strategy is to build a coalition with other organizations; Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA), Blue Ribbon Trout, Outdoor Retailer Industries, RMEF, Nature Conservancy and target a few legislators during election. The Parent Teachers Association doesn't like many of these same people and could be partners. Enemy of my enemy is my friend.

PM if you are willing to engage. Republican State convention is April 23.

 

[James Riley]

Just my opinion but seems to me this whole crowd who seem to be hostile toward our public lands have a very common theme they continually rant about, that being what I contend is their hatred of the Federal Government.

Good post. I also notice that these folks spend a great deal of their hatred focusing on social services and the "dead beats" that milk them. But forget social services for a minute. They contend the private sector could do better. Here are some things (stolen from someone else) that I would not trust the private sector to provide, at least without regulation or oversight: roads, bridges, schools, clean water, sewage treatment, police, fire, courts, jails, jobs site safety, drug and food safety, meat inspectors, child protection services, schools, universities, medical research, NASA, defense, coast guard, nuclear shield, parks, public land, wildlife, product liability laws, disease control, emergency response, veteran services, mental hospitals, weights and measures, standards, zoning, weather services, immigration services, animal control, air traffic control, defend and enforce the Constitution, and pass laws. That's just a partial list.

And don't forget, one whole hell of a lot of ingenuity and discovery that results in private profit is based upon research done by employees of, and at universities and funded by government research grants. From the internet to life saving drugs and beyond.

Whenever any of those things have been handed over to the private sector, they go to hell if there is not a shit ton of government oversight and regulation.

Regulation only exists because someone somewhere created the need for it in accord with human nature such that others cannot be trusted to not be regulated for reasonable fear they would do the same thing if not regulated. And then we get money influencing and limiting the regulation, or modifying it to the disadvantage of a poorer competitor.

End rant.

 

[utah400elk]

To me...

The arguments go to the extremes. The people who have issues with the federal government want things there way only. The issue I see with the ranchers is that they refuse to understand that the lands are required to be managed for multiple use. There is little doubt that the BLM and FS could allow more public grazing on the land, but at what cost? The ranchers who hate the federal government don't care about hunting, fishing, bird watching, etc. They simply want to use the land the way they want. They don't want the lands used by anybody but themselves.

The politicians are simply ridding the coat tails of the uninformed. They don't give a rat's back side about the ranchers...but there big money friends who could make billions off our federal lands, now that's another story. The politicians will never come out and say "ABC cooperation needs these lands to make more money." I believe the people would eat them alive if they said that. Especially if the people could see that ABC cooperation donated to the politician pushing for the land deals. Instead they will say they are fighting for the little guy who is being railroaded by the big bad government.

I wish they would ban all ATV use in the FS and BLM. I have witnessed the reckless behavior of a few ATV rides/hunters destroy hunting areas. I also wish they would make more Roadless areas. I seek these areas out when I hunt and think it would make hunting better in a lot of areas. I wish they would do these things but...I understand that the ATV riders, ranchers, fishermen/women, bird watchers, campers and a bunch of other people should also get to use the land. It should be managed for multiple use as they are directed.

JMO

 

[James Riley]

To me...
I wish they would ban all ATV use in the FS and BLM. I have witnessed the reckless behavior of a few ATV rides/hunters destroy hunting areas. I also wish they would make more Roadless areas. I seek these areas out when I hunt and think it would make hunting better in a lot of areas. I wish they would do these things but...I understand that the ATV riders, ranchers, fishermen/women, bird watchers, campers and a bunch of other people should also get to use the land. It should be managed for multiple use as they are directed.

JMO

^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^