Ukraine / Russia

I think the main difference here is that Saddam wasn't actively waging a misinformation war against the West.
I think the main difference here is that Saddam wasn't actively waging a misinformation war against the West.
I don't get your point, so since Putin is waging a misinformation campaign I am supposed to believe everyting that comes from the establishment?
 
Fomented divisiveness is good for party business and very good for media business. We have our collective representative furniture and their media accomplices right "where they want us" and like to pretend one's better than the other. But it's actually who we're against that matters at the ballot box. Manufactured influence (lies) are just another tool in the bag...a means to a rationalized end and no crises will escape uncapitalized.
 
I don't get your point, so since Putin is waging a misinformation campaign I am supposed to believe everyting that comes from the establishment?
Mostly saying that if points are being used in Russian state media to justify the invasion, there's probably a good chance that they're bending the truth and parroting those same points steers the conversation in a way that isn't helpful.
 
I too am hesitant to commit boots on the ground, and have limited interest in continually being the policeman of the world, but those aren't the arguments I see getting push back on this thread.

It is more the "Ukraine doesn't count", "US elites caused this", "Biden caused this", "Ukraine is corrupt", "Trump caused this", "it's all about Hunter Biden", "Ukraine's leader is a bad guy too", "Ukraine has Biolabs", "Nazi jews are running Ukraine", "insert random one world order conspiracy", etc that are being mocked. These are very different arguments than, "even though Ukraine is a free state and its people are unjustly suffering I am not yet willing to send my son to die for this fight".

Too often, rather than arguing what we should or should not do about the reality of the moment, we try to undercut the premise there is even a reality or a moment that is worthy of consideration. Sadly, not much different than climate change, continued difficulties of poor minority populations, the deficit, the ramifications of the de-industrialization of middle America, etc.
I'm a no on committing boots on the ground after watching the Afghan withdrawal. No one here other than in a couple links has touched on that debacle and it's significance to what is going on now.
 

Edit: I posted before I'd finished (it's long), the last author, I think, draws some powerful parallels between Russia and the US in terms of psychology and propaganda. How and why it's effective. None of them offer much hope for a "good" resolution. Even if this particular invasion continues to falter.
 
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Did the same thing in the Ukrainian embassy shortly before they invaded. Let’s hope Putin hasn’t gone off the deep end. Hopefully they are just grilling.
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Probably not much comfort there. Even if only 10% of the 6,000 warheads worked and they were only 50% as powerful as advertised, most life in America would cease to exist as we know it.

My hope is that the generals in the nuke authority chain exercise some judgment if that order comes down - they have families too and there is little doubt ours will work.
I would worry about the vacuum if Putin looses control as its a big country with nukes 1000's of miles apart seems like it would be easy for one or some to go missing or fall into terrorist hands and control> might end up with Ukraine getting control of a few nukes.
 
I would worry about the vacuum if Putin looses control as its a big country with nukes 1000's of miles apart seems like it would be easy for one or some to go missing or fall into terrorist hands and control> might end up with Ukraine getting control of a few nukes.
At this point - one crazy group with a random missing warhead they don't know how to operate or deliver is less of a concern than Mr. Putin having 6,000 of them, so my vote is still for him to go.
 
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We certainly failed there. Should we continue to just fail in order to keep our streak alive?
Failed? are you saying there is no longer a humanitarian issue in Yemen? Why do you not wanna help Yemen?
 
The NYT had their wings clipped. Not even close to a fair fight.

And this is exactly the kind of score keeping that is the problem. The issue of importance is not if Ukraine has corruption or not (it clearly does) - it is when/how do we prevent Putin from recreating Stalin’s empire. I would like to see both Ms. Owens and the NYTimes spend their energy on that question. But that is hard and doesn’t generate clicks - so instead they take tangential shots at one another and smuggly declare “wins”. But how many homes in Ukraine were saved by this exercise? How many children were fed? How many steps did we take backwards from a nuclear exchange with Putin?

BHR - you have posted hundreds of this type of post on various topics over the last few years. How about putting down your team red scorecard and quit enjoying the gamesmanship quite as much as you seem to.
 
It is because politics are no longer reasonable discussions between people with different views, where folks are fairly consistent in their thoughts over time. Politics are now a team sport blood war where the only thing that matters is scoring points while society burns, promoted by modern-day Don Kings and Vincent McMahons (in the form of cable news pundits and internet influencers) for their own profit.

For those who are always looking for the "big answer" - our ongoing problem is the media (mainstream and alt, the big publisher and the lone YouTuber) that are constantly spinning to earn $$$ rather than furthering rational journalism - the problem is not the Committee of 300, Jewish Nazis, Hunter Biden or elite pedophile rings. Stop taking their bait.
Amazing considering the threads related to the Trump Administration. Your comment is spot on. It is tribalized, trench warfare from the liberals and conservatives. The meme's, the cartoons, etc.
When it's one side, the other gets butthurt. The other? Meh...

To ignore for sake of backpatting / pom *pomming (*added word for those keeping score 🤣 ) their tribe's Kool aid King is a faulty setting to suggest addressing current McGaffe and side kick are off limits. Meanwhile, Tweety Trump was and is fair game...
No issue when headlines spoke of Republican Daines dunce move to tweet Ukraine Prez location... meanwhile had the article been actually read the liberal bent article had a small excerpt regarding others (D&R) also did the same... But headline sure yanked eyes!
Result? Booing of Daines (without reading the article or intentionally omitting the referenced others)...
However, share accurate commentary of Biden, Harris, Pelosi and Big Fin gets hailed by others who declare FOUL!

it goes both ways from what Randy has shared in past instances... he gets pulled whenever the "other" side objects.

Nature of the beast though for God sake, take your blinders off... this administration is on the hot seat.
Praise where praise be and booing where boos be. Haha... Boos-be. Making up fun words along the way for sake of making this a bit light hearted.

We're Anericans. Staunch R or D, some lean R and(or) D.

It's part of the discussion. Ukraine / Russia is specifically involved with significant U.S. interest.

all love HT. I'm sure I don't win hearts and minds from this nor am I seeking pom pom cheers... just sayin. :)

Enjoy. A whoopload of info has been great from all sides and those in the middle.
Not directed at you VG, leapfrog g off your post. Now, probably 10 pages since to catch up. 🤣
 
I said we failed, we as in the USA.

Happy to help right that ship. Who would you like me to talk to about it?

What’s a Pom Pom reference without a funny gif?

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Not OK with me. If they meet OU kicks their butt. Seriously, if you have a spare minute listen to OU HC Brent Venables talk about their SOUL program, which he imported from Clemson. What the whole country needs. Basically teach young men to deal with life in an ethical way, not just ball. Sooner born and Sooner bred, and I don't care if they go 6/4 next year, it's the right message. Sorry for the derail. Full stop.
 
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