Ukraine / Russia

[MTGomer]

I was reading over the weekend about how hard it will be for Russia to long-term occupy Ukraine. It was comparing it to the hell Americans went through in Ramadi, the Americans far more prepared than the Russians, and the Iraqi insurgency far less prepared than the Ukrainians.
The percentage of Iraqis sympathetic to or a part of the insurgency was a fraction compared to where Ukrainian loyalties in Kyiv are.

 

[VikingsGuy]

"And the President's ability to exercise that authority and direction is ensured by people, processes, and capabilities . . . "

This is bureaucracy-speak for, "even if the president is dead and glowing we have a process to execute on his will - the will to nuke the offender."

 

[Ben Lamb]

And Lincoln suspended habits corpus - time to get your chisels and head to South Dakota.

Sedition act of 1918, Patriot Act of 2001, etc, etc, etc

 

[Sytes]

This is bureaucracy-speak for, "even if the president is dead and glowing we have a process to execute on his will - the will to nuke the offender."

Hopefully so though my understanding, the succession continues for President.

 

[LWC55]

Sedition act of 1918, Patriot Act of 2001, etc, etc, etc

Why defend the removal of free speech and other freedoms?

 

[longbow51]

And Lincoln suspended habits corpus - time to get your chisels and head to South Dakota.

You know, let's try to keep it in the same century. And not in favor of Patriot Act either; slippery slope, and now we see the results. But, the Patriot Act doesn't have anything to do with Ukraine, nor does Lincoln. In point of fact, Zelensky is acting very much the dictator.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Why defend the removal of free speech and other freedoms?

Why ignore historical context for actions in order to prop up an argument on an internet forum?

Not defending it, just making sure we all know that it happens during war. Zelensky is fighting for the freedom of his people. His actions strengthen his position. Strategically, it makes sense. Tactically, it's a solid move. Long term - it's how you lose support from the rest of the world. Nothing he's done since ascending to President indicates this move is anything but an attempt to win the war.

 

[Rhcuam]

I was reading over the weekend about how hard it will be for Russia to long-term occupy Ukraine. It was comparing it to the hell Americans went through in Ramadi, the Americans far more prepared than the Russians, and the Iraqi insurgency far less prepared than the Ukrainians.
The percentage of Iraqis sympathetic to or a part of the insurgency was a fraction compared to where Ukrainian loyalties in Kyiv are.

I believe the Russian approach will be the beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

[LWC55]

Why ignore historical context for actions in order to prop up an argument on an internet forum?

Not defending it, just making sure we all know that it happens during war. Zelensky is fighting for the freedom of his people. His actions strengthen his position. Strategically, it makes sense. Tactically, it's a solid move. Long term - it's how you lose support from the rest of the world. Nothing he's done since ascending to President indicates this move is anything but an attempt to win the war.

Not ignoring history. Just pointing out that the Patriot Act and the like were not a good idea when implemented (in my opinion) and are not good now when done by other countries. They are a good idea if you want the government to have more power and the people less. But not good for those that support democratic government.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Hopefully so though my understanding, the succession continues for President.

Or, "If at any time in the next 90 days you fail to receive a daily stand-down order from the Office of the President for three consecutive days you are instructed by POTUS to launch". Lots of ways to retain civil control even when the head is cut off.

 

[BigHornRam]

This is bureaucracy-speak for, "even if the president is dead and glowing we have a process to execute on his will - the will to nuke the offender."

Mutually assurd destruction has worked for humanity up to this point. Now we got an aging sociopathic comrade with a bad case of little man syndrome who would rather blow up the world than go down in the history books as a shitty leader. Time for a new plan, Hoss.

 

[VikingsGuy]

You know, let's try to keep it in the same century. And not in favor of Patriot Act either; slippery slope, and now we see the results. But, the Patriot Act doesn't have anything to do with Ukraine, nor does Lincoln. In point of fact, Zelensky is acting very much the dictator.

I could have included dozens throughout the last 100 or so years by US and its allies, but wasn't need to make the point. And @Ben Lamb started to fill in a few to help those who haven't read history.

Zelensky is acting quite presidential by any modern context and there is no moral equivalency to be had between he and Vlad (I like how that rhymes).

 

[VikingsGuy]

Not ignoring history. Just pointing out that the Patriot Act and the like were not a good idea when implemented (in my opinion) and are not good now when done by other countries. They are a good idea if you want the government to have more power and the people less. But not good for those that support democratic government.

As SCOTUS has pointed out several times . . . "the Constitution is not a suicide pact". Free democracies have always had to get down off their high horse and fight in the mud to preserve their freedom long term - nothing new here.

My god - we complain about today's schools not teaching proper history -- reading this forum calls more into question if they even did during the 50s, 60s, 70, 80s, and 90s.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Not ignoring history. Just pointing out that the Patriot Act and the like were not a good idea when implemented (in my opinion) and are not good now when done by other countries. They are a good idea if you want the government to have more power and the people less. But not good for those that support democratic government.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." RWE

Yes, both the Sedition Act & The Patriot Act were massive overreaches in terms of trying to ensure national security.

The contraction of rights during war is nothing new, and to ignore that, especially in light of the context of this particular fight, seems to be a foolish consistency to me.

Those two statements are not in conflict with each other.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Mutually assurd destruction has worked for humanity up to this point. Now we got an aging sociopathic comrade with a bad case of little man syndrome who would rather blow up the world than go down in the history books as a shitty leader. Time for a new plan, Hoss.

That is always the fear. It worked with Stalin and Khrushchev, but will it work for the next guy (or would it have worked with Hitler had the technology come a decade earlier). The only real hope is that the number of people in the chain of command act as a buffer between a crazy and a launch. But I don't worry about it - I grew up going to sleep 17 miles from an ICMB silo knowing I was dead the minute things escalated - you get used to it.

#growingupanuclearsponge

These 5 states were designed to act as America’s ‘nuclear sponge’

Since the Cold War, the U.S. has strategically kept missile silos in sparsely populated areas of the country.

www.fastcompany.com

 

[BigHornRam]

The only real hope is that the number of people in the chain of command act as a buffer between a crazy and a launch.

No shit. I'm getting more and more skeptical, however.

 

[Addicting]

Peter Feaver touched on this as well.

What a horrible porn name.

 

[VikingsGuy]

No shit. I'm getting more and more skeptical, however.

View attachment 216249

#birdsarentreal

 

[Irrelevant]

Some of you clearly just can't handle not being upset with someone or something.

Just so you guys are aware how you're coming off. It appears that anything the left approves of, you need to find ways to not approve of it. You're so against the idea that anything anyone from the left side of political spectrum supports could be anything but purest of evils that you've lost all touch with the reality that we all have far more in common than not.

Freedoms are always curtailed during war, even this school skipping, history-is-for-people-who can't-do-math, peace loving dove knows that!

 

[VikingsGuy]

Is habits the southern translation Dan?

stupid autocorrect