U.S. supreme Court case - Big decision ahead

[VikingsGuy]

A good summary of arguments for those who don't want to read the whole transcript:

http://www.scotusblog.com/2019/01/a...ion-and-occupation-in-crow-tribe-treaty-case/

 

[Sytes]

Visit Bowning. Enjoy the cultural experience while visiting Glacier National Park. The experience will stay a lifetime.

 

[Irrelevant]

That was a good summary so far. I wish there was a way to "subscribe" to a particular trial on that SCOTUS blog, they pump out so much info it's hard to track.

 

[VikingsGuy]

That was a good summary so far. I wish there was a way to "subscribe" to a particular trial on that SCOTUS blog, they pump out so much info it's hard to track.

If you go to the case specific page you can:

 

[Irrelevant]

Sweet, thanks VG

 

[300 short mag]

What happens if this issue is resolved in favor of the Crow Tribe? Will they be able to use and drive their ATV’s and UTV’s any place they want to hunt or retrieve game or will they be restricted to stay on trails and roads like the rest of us have to? Just a thought that came to my mind. John

 

[VikingsGuy]

What happens if this issue is resolved in favor of the Crow Tribe? Will they be able to use and drive their ATV’s and UTV’s any place they want to hunt or retrieve game or will they be restricted to stay on trails and roads like the rest of us have to? Just a thought that came to my mind. John

Typically treaty rights have been subject to some limited state regulation and clearly are still subject to federal rules.

 

[BWALKER77]

So if this ruling goes the wrong way, how do you guys see this going? If it’s just the treaty with the crow nation I don’t see it having a substantial effect. Enrolled crow membership is Roughly 12,000, so maybe 2,000ish hunters, of which say 75% are probably ethical people aware of importance of wildlife management. Rough numbers, but just trying to simplify this in my head. Im sure there is a lot I don’t know about the case, so fill me in. Does this open the floodgates to similar treaties with tribes across the nation?

Assuming 75% of crow hunters are ethical is a huge mistake. I worked on the reservation for a period time and seen pics of the slaughter. I could tell you about them but you wouldnt believe me.
It's also worth noting that the reason the crows hunt the border of wyoming is because the interior of the reservation is a dead zone.

 

[belly-deep]

Assuming 75% of crow hunters are ethical is a huge mistake. I worked on the reservation for a period time and seen pics of the slaughter. I could tell you about them but you wouldnt believe me.
It's also worth noting that the reason the crows hunt the border of wyoming is because the interior of the reservation is a dead zone.

Yeah it is pretty sad how little wildlife you see on the 7 reservations in MT. I don’t know how it is in other states, but if MT tribal hunting management is any indication, wildlife is in for a rough patch if Wyoming loses this case.

 

[Irrelevant]

The Yakamas in WA manage a large portion of their reservation as a game refuge. It's pretty cool, lots of critters and decent enforcement. Also some of the better managed dry-side forests I've seen.

 

[Sytes]

Any possibility this opens "tribal hunts" for non tribal hunters outside Reservation land - via tribal hunting license - permits?
A common use for the "Rich and Famous" outside the typical U.S. / State regulated hunting season. The Apache and Navaho Tribes are pretty involved in the NM and AZ area... Of course the cost is some 15-25k...

 

[Bigjay73]

Not all tribal hunts are that much money

 

[MTGomer]

The only thing the crow have worth paying to hunt is bear and maybe antelope.
I am unsure how it is not part of their culture to kill these animals themselves but acceptable to take whiteman to kill them.
Either way.. if bear hunting is your thing, they have the best in the state. Maybe in the country.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Any possibility this opens "tribal hunts" for non tribal hunters outside Reservation land - via tribal hunting license - permits?
A common use for the "Rich and Famous" outside the typical U.S. / State regulated hunting season. The Apache and Navaho Tribes are pretty involved in the NM and AZ area... Of course the cost is some 15-25k...

Highly unlikely.

 

[BWALKER77]

Yeah it is pretty sad how little wildlife you see on the 7 reservations in MT. I don’t know how it is in other states, but if MT tribal hunting management is any indication, wildlife is in for a rough patch if Wyoming loses this case.

There is a complete lack of management. Elk season is year round and no limit. Buffalo require a permit, but often obtaining a permit is ignored. Antelope are shot down and killed like prairie dogs and left to rot. I could go on and on.

 

[Z Barebow]

Assuming 75% of crow hunters are ethical is a huge mistake. I worked on the reservation for a period time and seen pics of the slaughter. I could tell you about them but you wouldnt believe me.
It's also worth noting that the reason the crows hunt the border of wyoming is because the interior of the reservation is a dead zone.

Some speculation on my part. Some of the elk from WY 38/39 winter to the north. The elk start seeing their friends and relatives tip over every time they hear a bang. So they retreat south. The folks who generate the bang followed the elk without regard of any regard for tribal of governmental boundaries. (You live there. So you know where they are)

There is a reason why WYO GF reduced the number of tags in 38. And it was not because of hunter take in WYO during the fall. (Excerpt from WYOMING JCR report)

"Population

We do not have a spreadsheet model developed for this herd unit because: 1) we do not manage
this herd based on a post-season population objective; 2) this is an interstate elk herd; and 3) up
to 25% of this herd migrates onto the Crow Indian Reservation in Montana each fall, where
harvest is unregulated and unmonitored. We manage this herd based on mid-winter trend counts.
Elk generally winter in traditional areas within this herd unit and we likely count 70-90% of
wintering elk in any given year."

 

[VikingsGuy]

There is a complete lack of management. Elk season is year round and no limit. Buffalo require a permit, but often obtaining a permit is ignored. Antelope are shot down and killed like prairie dogs and left to rot. I could go on and on.

I have no doubt you are right, and we have come along way, but its still hard to hear a non-native lecture natives about the senseless slaughter of plains animals without cringing a little.

 

[Schaaf]

I have no doubt you are right, and we have come along way, but its still hard to hear a non-native lecture natives about the senseless slaughter of plains animals without cringing a little.

Yep, I spend 4 days per week on the Fort Peck Indian Reservation. I have opinions on their game management but largely keep them to myself.

 

[Sytes]

Sure hope Wyoming is victorious.

 

[belly-deep]

I have no doubt you are right, and we have come along way, but its still hard to hear a non-native lecture natives about the senseless slaughter of plains animals without cringing a little.

Really?

Because being born well after the 1800's I have absolutely ZERO to do with any of that. So now I can't hold an opinion on all those dead bucks I find in the Fort Peck Reservation coulees while I'm pheasant hunting? Or the fact that I can count on one hand the number of deer I've seen on the Blackfeet Reservation while driving through it for the last 25 years? Poached and left to rot? Hunted nearly to local extinction?

Sorry, not gonna keep from forming an opinion because of white guilt.