In that she lost, yes. But the data suggests that it is not a mandate for Trump, and the votes show that the majority of Americans still voted for her.
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In that she lost, yes. But the data suggests that it is not a mandate for Trump, and the votes show that the majority of Americans still voted for her.
bobbydean
Well-known member
Without the electoral college, New York and California would have controlled this election. Honestly, how many of this forum would agree with that. I thank my founding fathers for their genius. Popular vote win does not matter. I like that New Hampshire's 3 or 4 votes make a difference.
I wanted to stay out beyond the IBTL comment though "Strong, the wacky force is"...
My view: This was a definite ass kicking to the D's. Donald Trump was an ass kick to the R's early on... The D's lost to a reality show host and in my opinion, a non fiction tale of Biff... That IS an ASS KICKING! Michigan??? People are TIRED of the wash, rinse, repeat typical political dribble from politicians such as the big H! That is what she represented regardless the emails, etc... the emails ARE a stem of the political face.
I have a nasty taste for both. Both crap! So not looking for the Trump fan boi / gurl cheers either. I could not in good conscious vote for either regardless the banter of the no vote for one is a vote for the other bull. I brings fear to no end over our public lands... I find it a gut churn of crap that our House and Senate AND the "Throne" hold little of the check and balance. I am a much more slanted R from my I stance and a life NRA - though critical of the cheers n beers steamroll potential that looms.
Trump called his game plan from the start - right up through the union stronghold... The Celebrity Apprentice to Politics kicked the living be-jesus out of the entire Political foundation none the less the D's.
Note: The caps are not of keyboard yelling - rather for emphasis.
/Political rant off for 5 minutes. Hopefully the force will grow less the more humor I find.
THIS ELECTION should and MUST be a wake up call to the politicians
My view: This was a definite ass kicking to the D's. Donald Trump was an ass kick to the R's early on... The D's lost to a reality show host and in my opinion, a non fiction tale of Biff... That IS an ASS KICKING! Michigan??? People are TIRED of the wash, rinse, repeat typical political dribble from politicians such as the big H! That is what she represented regardless the emails, etc... the emails ARE a stem of the political face.
I have a nasty taste for both. Both crap! So not looking for the Trump fan boi / gurl cheers either. I could not in good conscious vote for either regardless the banter of the no vote for one is a vote for the other bull. I brings fear to no end over our public lands... I find it a gut churn of crap that our House and Senate AND the "Throne" hold little of the check and balance. I am a much more slanted R from my I stance and a life NRA - though critical of the cheers n beers steamroll potential that looms.
Trump called his game plan from the start - right up through the union stronghold... The Celebrity Apprentice to Politics kicked the living be-jesus out of the entire Political foundation none the less the D's.
Note: The caps are not of keyboard yelling - rather for emphasis.
/Political rant off for 5 minutes. Hopefully the force will grow less the more humor I find.
THIS ELECTION should and MUST be a wake up call to the politicians
Irrelevant
Well-known member
I don't know how anyone of any persuasion can support the electoral college. If you're a conservative in Washington your vote doesn't mean anything. Same with being a democrat in Idaho. Living in E WA, with a mixed office of Rs and Ds we would all appreciate an opportunity to have our presidential votes actually count. We should also do away with superdelagates and primaries. The whole idea of having to brown-nose one side of the isle for half the cycle, only to then have to flip and do the same to the other side in order to pull the fence riders is ridiculous and in the end doesn't give us the best all-around candidates.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Ask the pollsters about the efficacy of data.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Nemont
Well-known member
You should go read the history of the Constitutional convention and how the Electoral College came about. We are not and never have been a democracy, We are a Representative Republic. The history of the electoral college and 240 years of mostly peaceful transfer of power suggests that if it ain't broke don't fix it. If you want the "best all around candidates" start with where the money comes from and reform that, don't start with the institution that requires an amendment to the Constitution.
Nemont
Big Sky Dreamin
Member
Less than 50% of the electorate cast a ballot. Of those ballots cast no candidate received at least 50% of the vote. Less than 25% of the electorate elected the next president. That is not as ass kicking or a mandate, but we could all pay the price for this historic consolidation of power in Washington.
Watch congress and hold their feet to the fire or we will be steam rolled!
Watch congress and hold their feet to the fire or we will be steam rolled!
The difference between polls, which I've long held as suspect even when they come out in my favor, and post election data provided by actual votes are two vastly different things. Polls rely on the information being provided to them being truthful. The votes can't lie. They are solid data that shows how people voted according to their district.
it's the same as saying your Kimber can shoot .5 MOA and letting me watch you hit the target.
Tradewind
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I already did pay a price for the consolidation of power. every damn month and it's called Obamacare and the only thing to stop it was Trump. tone deaf politicians got what they deserved. i will gladly take what comes of the pendulum swinging completely the other way. but you're probably right about one thing. It is usually not a good thing.
katqanna
Well-known member
I saw in the news yesterday, Maine just voted in a new voting system - ranked choice voting, a shift that makes third parties more viable.
Its time to see how serious Republicans are about their agenda - both good and bad.
Are they really going to cut taxes for those of us making Poverty line-$250k? Repeal the ACA? How about eliminate or downsize a few fed agencies we don't need? Can we end or at least put to a vote whether or not we should be at war in several countries? Lets cut foreign aid. Atleast starting with countries that hate us and all Islamic theocracies.
Will there be real, meaningful actions to secure the boarder? But at the same time, the process to legally enter our country needs to be updated, big time.
There are so many legitimate federal agencies, programs,etc that suck and need to just go away or have their power strippedc, that I will be highly disappointed if they focus on the one thing almost all Americans love - our public lands.
I have a feeling we'll see a major PLT push from the conservative wing of the party. Whether it gains any traction or not, we'll see.
This term will be good for the pockets of BHA and others and bad for the NRA. And rightfully so.
Should be interesting.
Are they really going to cut taxes for those of us making Poverty line-$250k? Repeal the ACA? How about eliminate or downsize a few fed agencies we don't need? Can we end or at least put to a vote whether or not we should be at war in several countries? Lets cut foreign aid. Atleast starting with countries that hate us and all Islamic theocracies.
Will there be real, meaningful actions to secure the boarder? But at the same time, the process to legally enter our country needs to be updated, big time.
There are so many legitimate federal agencies, programs,etc that suck and need to just go away or have their power strippedc, that I will be highly disappointed if they focus on the one thing almost all Americans love - our public lands.
I have a feeling we'll see a major PLT push from the conservative wing of the party. Whether it gains any traction or not, we'll see.
This term will be good for the pockets of BHA and others and bad for the NRA. And rightfully so.
Should be interesting.
As someone who values the great outdoors, I know I am not comfortable with the concept of presidential elections being primarily driven by an electorate who spends the bulk of their lives nearest the nations tallest buildings. Our founders were brilliant.
RobG
Well-known member
What I remember the most from my study was the folks at the Constitutional convention were very concerned that uneducated voters would chose the leaders and this was the reason to make a buffer between the common man and the actual decision makers. They feared the common man could be easily bought or duped by a corrupt person. A more obvious example of the result of their reasoning was how the U.S. Senate was elected. As many here know, originally the State Legislature selected the U.S. Senators. In a sense us common folk elected much smarter folks who would make wise decisions. The idea horribly backfired because it turned out a corrupt person only had to sway the vote of a few Legislators to be elected instead of thousands of common men. William Clark of Butte famously did this. So because of this and other reasons (like deadlock) it was decided directly electing Senators was more robust.
The electoral college served the same purpose and has similar problems because the candidates only have to sway a few key states. If you think the college gives more representation to small states you are hugely mistaken! Candidates don't give a crap about Montana or the other small states! But they will make all kinds of sweet promises to the swing states.
The electoral college was supposed to be collection of highly informed people who would make the choice. Instead these "informed people" simply serve to truncate the popular vote and subject the results to rounding error. I'm sure the founding fathers would admit it is not working as they intended... Again, you are foolish to believe this gives small states a bigger voice. Only the voice of the swing states matter and it's mere chance if the interests overlap.
I don't see it going away as it greatly simplifies the campaigns since they only have to sway a few key states. At this time Ds are just going to have to be 0.4% or so better if they want to win. It's unfair and wasn't the intent, but that is why they made big boy pants (and big girl pant suits).
antlerradar
Well-known member
This is right on. Eliminating the electoral college would shift political power to the big cities. I would bet that large numbers of the people in them would only look to public land as a source of revenue to support a life stile much different than we on this forum. Eliminating the electoral college may help elect democrats in the short term but likely would effect public land negatively long term.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
....fixed.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
And until 1920 women couldn't vote. That didn't mean it was right. Nor does it mean the Electoral College is right. I read history just fine. I just don't take it as the gospel, nor do I think that a system of election in an era before instant communication was even an idea is still valid.
bobbydean
Well-known member
I am watching all the protests of the Trump victory.
My one and only thought is you wanted so bad, why didn't vote.
I am do not think that a fourth of protester's voting.
Tell me I am wrong!
My one and only thought is you wanted so bad, why didn't vote.
I am do not think that a fourth of protester's voting.
Tell me I am wrong!
Nemont
Well-known member
Did giving women the right to vote or American Indians or freeing the slave fundamentally change the way we elect our presidents? Would you be singing a different tune if the results were reversed and Hillary carried the EC and Trump won the popular? Also how would your vote count more or less if it went to a popular election? There are still precincts counting votes right now today imagine the chaos of a very tight election and the counting went on for weeks? Remember Gore V. Bush in 2000, multiply that by 50 states.
jryoung
Well-known member
With the warm temperatures across the nation I'm really hoping the delicate snowflakes start to melt.
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