Fair Chase DIY Public Land Hunters lost, but as Yogi once said "It ain't over till it's over"
Trump: The Useful Idiot
- Thread starter JoseCuervo
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Fair Chase DIY Public Land Hunters lost, but as Yogi once said "It ain't over till it's over"
shoots-straight
Well-known member
The problem with explaining the situation to people "NOT IN THE KNOW". Is it would take a lot of time. People would rather just listing to a meme on FB to make their minds up.
T
tjones
Guest
You don't get out much.
T
tjones
Guest
Carnage2011
Well-known member
Buzz can you elaborate? I'm not doubting you, as I believe you usually have facts to bring, but I'd like more info.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
I'm willing to learn and try to be involved. Rather than spew your arrogance about "BEING IN THR KNOW" maybe you could explain it some more. Wyoming is a lot different deal than Montana. I've knocked on many ranchers' doors for permission to hunt wolves and never been turned down.
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tjones
Guest
Search "Wyoming wolves". This topic was beat to death here 5-6 years ago during the delisting process.
ShootsManyBullets
Well-known member
Meaning Wyoming could have followed the template of approved wolf management plans from their neighbors but refused and decided to make up their own plan that didn't follow previously approved ones so now they are sitting here without a season thanks to their own arrogance.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Carnage2011,
I can, but it would probably be easier to do a search on this site on wolf delisting for a complete story. Its a long and winding path that got us here.
Cliff notes version is that WY, MT, and ID all made an agreement with the Federal Government to have accepted state plans once wolves met required numbers to delist. All 3 states had to have an accepted plan or delisting wouldn't happen in ANY state, in other words ID, WY, and MT were in it together.
MT and ID had strong plans, WY, not so much. The livestock and Ag industry dominated legislature, thought their plan of allowing wolves to be shot on sight in 75% of the state was a good idea. The feds didn't agree. That delayed MT and ID for a number of years, until they grew tired of WY's hard headed stance and worked with Tester from MT and Simpson from ID to legislate a rider to delist wolves in those 2 states and leave Wyoming on its own. I don't blame them, I would have done the same thing.
Montana and Idaho have managed wolves ever since with hunting seasons every year while WY and their R dominated legislature seem content to roll the dice in court.
Sad thing is, all they had to do was designate wolves as a big game animal state wide and require a permit. Have quotas in the recovery area that ensured minimum numbers to keep them off the list, hold 365 day season in their "predator zone", but still require a tag. The plan would have been accepted and this would be over.
The unwillingness by the AG and Livestock dominated legislature to live up to their agreements, and their continued stubbornness of "showing the feds" is 100% the reason why Wyoming has no State control.
They had multiple chances to get this right and failed at every turn.
I can, but it would probably be easier to do a search on this site on wolf delisting for a complete story. Its a long and winding path that got us here.
Cliff notes version is that WY, MT, and ID all made an agreement with the Federal Government to have accepted state plans once wolves met required numbers to delist. All 3 states had to have an accepted plan or delisting wouldn't happen in ANY state, in other words ID, WY, and MT were in it together.
MT and ID had strong plans, WY, not so much. The livestock and Ag industry dominated legislature, thought their plan of allowing wolves to be shot on sight in 75% of the state was a good idea. The feds didn't agree. That delayed MT and ID for a number of years, until they grew tired of WY's hard headed stance and worked with Tester from MT and Simpson from ID to legislate a rider to delist wolves in those 2 states and leave Wyoming on its own. I don't blame them, I would have done the same thing.
Montana and Idaho have managed wolves ever since with hunting seasons every year while WY and their R dominated legislature seem content to roll the dice in court.
Sad thing is, all they had to do was designate wolves as a big game animal state wide and require a permit. Have quotas in the recovery area that ensured minimum numbers to keep them off the list, hold 365 day season in their "predator zone", but still require a tag. The plan would have been accepted and this would be over.
The unwillingness by the AG and Livestock dominated legislature to live up to their agreements, and their continued stubbornness of "showing the feds" is 100% the reason why Wyoming has no State control.
They had multiple chances to get this right and failed at every turn.
Buzz is right. 2002 the Game & Fish Commission had an opportunity to follow their agency and the science to a plan that would have resulted in DPS wide delisting in roughly 2005 (when we hit all the major criteria for delisting except WY's plan).
The Ag & livestock industry gave the commission their marching orders and they rejected the agency's plan in favor of the ag plan. And here we are 14 years later. Which is a shame because I think the WGFD would be an excellent steward of the wolf population in WY.
Wolves are political power for extremists on both sides. I spent from 2002 - 2011 working daily on the issue to try and get management back to the states and the only way it succeeded was because of Tester & Simpson (And for those who hate Harry Reid - he was instrumental in getting this done).
The Ag & livestock industry gave the commission their marching orders and they rejected the agency's plan in favor of the ag plan. And here we are 14 years later. Which is a shame because I think the WGFD would be an excellent steward of the wolf population in WY.
Wolves are political power for extremists on both sides. I spent from 2002 - 2011 working daily on the issue to try and get management back to the states and the only way it succeeded was because of Tester & Simpson (And for those who hate Harry Reid - he was instrumental in getting this done).
jryoung
Well-known member
Probably the best example is when SFW and BGF got called out by the NRA and SCI and a host of others for misrepresenting fact on the Simpson-Tester rider to delisting wolves as they tried to scuttle the rider.
http://billingsgazette.com/lifestyl...cle_e8040da9-af35-54c3-8cc6-44cedc466bfd.html
Carnage2011
Well-known member
THANK YOU! Thanks for taking the time to write that out Buzz. I did know most of that already but there were a few things I wasn't aware of. My original comment was regarding the groups that kept tying things up in Malloys' courtroom even though Montana and Idaho had a good plan. I wasn't referring to Wyoming, but your comment makes more sense now. Thanks again for taking the time. I'm always willing to learn and try to help, but I get annoyed by the guys like Shoots-straight that would rather talk down to someone than explain it to them.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
Thanks Ben!
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Arrogance is exactly what went on with right wingers of Wyoming.
Add to what Buzz and Ben have said: IF Wyoming had capitulated in 2002, and then a possibility there could have been a stay from a judge for a court case, (that would have lost), Wyoming would have, and could have went to their 75% of the state "Predator" area status as early as 2007 or maybe 08,(after the 5 years oversight by the Federal government) and certainly no latter than 09. They would have been managing wolves all this time, If not for real Arrogance upon their parts and those feverish wolf haters that used social media to drive home misinformation..
I've probably said this in vain over 100 times on the Internet explaining the situation to people, only to have them gloss over with glazed eyes. I've lost my give a chit on the subject and therefore might come across as "Arrogant" myself.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
Thanks for the input Shoots. I don't frequent the forum as much as most people and often times don't read every thread. So I've probably missed most of your posts. I know that there are some great advocates here and I try to learn from the wealth of knowledge.
BuzzH
Well-known member
The lack of an accepted Wyoming plan is what kept the issue in court for Montana and Idaho. Again, you're blaming the anti's for something that Wyoming did to itself, and up until Simpson/Tester, they were doing to Montana and Idaho. Wyoming wasn't sticking it to the feds or anti's, but really were sticking it to Montana and Idaho.
Easiest way to solve the problem is take the ammunition away from those seeking litigation by simply having a solid State recovery plan.
Wyoming is now on its own and wolves still aren't being managed by the State.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
Got ya! I hadn't ever made that connection, but it makes sense. Thanks for the info!
Nothing good will come from the trump presidency, especially when you consider his cabinet appointees.
JoseCuervo
New member
Unfortunate they haven't.
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