Thoughts on Wolves?
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BigHornRam
Well-known member
Buzz is right Excaliber. Not because he's very bright, but because he learned of this the hard way. Last spring he got all teary eyed when some Bighole welfare ranchers smoked 4 of his precious mutts. He still needs to talk to Liz about Montana's management plans though.
Buzz, go ahead and name the bet. Need a time frame however. I could be dead in the next 20 years and don't want to burden my heirs.
Buzz, go ahead and name the bet. Need a time frame however. I could be dead in the next 20 years and don't want to burden my heirs.
BuzzH
Well-known member
BHR,
I dont think Liz's opinion is the only opinion on how wolves will be managed and if a hunting season will happen. The Gov. as well as the FWP director, etc. etc. etc. will have the authority to set up a season if they want to. However, we'll never get to find out until wolves are delisted. So, really, at this point what Liz, you or I think is irrevelant.
Excaliber,
From your tone, I dont think anyone can tell you anything.
Its your choice to believe drunks or the laws, regulations, and facts about wolf management.
You've taken a serious spanking on this issue, admit it and move on.
I dont think Liz's opinion is the only opinion on how wolves will be managed and if a hunting season will happen. The Gov. as well as the FWP director, etc. etc. etc. will have the authority to set up a season if they want to. However, we'll never get to find out until wolves are delisted. So, really, at this point what Liz, you or I think is irrevelant.
Excaliber,
From your tone, I dont think anyone can tell you anything.
Its your choice to believe drunks or the laws, regulations, and facts about wolf management.
You've taken a serious spanking on this issue, admit it and move on.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Excaliber,
You, calling someone "not too bright", now thats funny.
Bright enough to know that ID and MT have more control over their wolves than WY...and also bright enough to not believe drunken welfare ranchers...
You, calling someone "not too bright", now thats funny.
Bright enough to know that ID and MT have more control over their wolves than WY...and also bright enough to not believe drunken welfare ranchers...
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Wasn't Liz's "opinion" Buzz. It was a statement of how Montana plans to manage wolves. Like I said before, maybe the Montana wolf managers are playing rope a dope with the wolf huggers to get them off their back, but Idoubt it. The head honcho Carolyn Simes is a wolf hugger through and through IMO. I'm still waiting on your bet.
BuzzH
Well-known member
BHR,
I'd say within 3 years after delisting happens MT will have a season.
I agree with you that it may be 20 years before they're delisted as WY is hell-bent on self-destruction.
I dont believe that the "head honcho" or any biologists will be able to influence what the people of MT or its legislature wants with wolves. You never know for sure and its a 50-50 bet. I could be wrong, but MT was the last state to have a grizzly season, has been pretty strong on the bison hunt, etc.
That being said, until WY's plan is acceptable its 100% that MT will not have a season.
So if the bet is 20 years...your odds are probably better.
I'd say within 3 years after delisting happens MT will have a season.
I agree with you that it may be 20 years before they're delisted as WY is hell-bent on self-destruction.
I dont believe that the "head honcho" or any biologists will be able to influence what the people of MT or its legislature wants with wolves. You never know for sure and its a 50-50 bet. I could be wrong, but MT was the last state to have a grizzly season, has been pretty strong on the bison hunt, etc.
That being said, until WY's plan is acceptable its 100% that MT will not have a season.
So if the bet is 20 years...your odds are probably better.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Excaliber,
Everyone can sort out the facts and see who was right and who was wrong on this issue.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Believe me, it takes a lot for BHR to admit I was right.
Everyone can sort out the facts and see who was right and who was wrong on this issue.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Believe me, it takes a lot for BHR to admit I was right.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
"I agree with you that it may be 20 years before they're delisted as WY is hell-bent on self-destruction."
I thought the wolves weren't harming the game populations according to you Buzz. Now your starting to sound like one of those "sky is falling" drunks on the bar stool.
My money say's Wyoming has a wolf season before Montana or Minnesota does. Any takers?
I thought the wolves weren't harming the game populations according to you Buzz. Now your starting to sound like one of those "sky is falling" drunks on the bar stool.
My money say's Wyoming has a wolf season before Montana or Minnesota does. Any takers?
Moosie
Grand poopa
mtmiller said:That would be a shut-up for me.
I was shut out this year (no surprise). I did play in the snow and rain this weekend, but other than one unknown bear, it was only wet and cold. Still had fun and got some exercise, but ruggless in '06. Maybe next year I will try the donut trick.
For those scoring at home:
- Moosie (PaPa Moose is just gay) 1
- Miller (bad hunter) 0
YAH, You're jsut setting my Arse up for Deer..... Antelope... elk..... ducks..... Dam~you man.... Dam you....
But I'll sit on the 1-0 for now
cjcj
New member
BuzzH said:
Pretty funny thread.....Excaliber... anyone here knows the above statement is 100% true
shoots-straight
Well-known member
BHR,
You need to read the wolf recovery plan for Montana, this is the document Montana is going to use when the delisting occurs.
It states clear as a bell, Managers plan to use adaptive management, just the same as all the other game animals. They state clearly they will be managed with lethal means. same as any other game animal. Period.
Maybe the gal you taked to made it sound as if it wouldn't happen, but I dought she will have the last word.
The head of the entire wolf recovery effort stated recently that in order for the public not to resent the wolf recovery they need a stake in the process, and management of the wolf. They needed to be included in the solution, which will mean hunting. Believe it or not, but go to the Montana Fish & Wildlife page and read the wolf recovery plan. Then you'll know what your talking about. The document clearly says that most likely wolf management will be with trapping, and hunting, by permits under a quota.
That doesn't sound to me that the fish and game isn't planning on using hunting as a management tool..................Everyone for that matter should read this document. Most of the people on this thread are talking half out their arsnic.
You need to read the wolf recovery plan for Montana, this is the document Montana is going to use when the delisting occurs.
It states clear as a bell, Managers plan to use adaptive management, just the same as all the other game animals. They state clearly they will be managed with lethal means. same as any other game animal. Period.
Maybe the gal you taked to made it sound as if it wouldn't happen, but I dought she will have the last word.
The head of the entire wolf recovery effort stated recently that in order for the public not to resent the wolf recovery they need a stake in the process, and management of the wolf. They needed to be included in the solution, which will mean hunting. Believe it or not, but go to the Montana Fish & Wildlife page and read the wolf recovery plan. Then you'll know what your talking about. The document clearly says that most likely wolf management will be with trapping, and hunting, by permits under a quota.
That doesn't sound to me that the fish and game isn't planning on using hunting as a management tool..................Everyone for that matter should read this document. Most of the people on this thread are talking half out their arsnic.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
S.S.,
I've been to all the local meetings, during the planning process and after. I've met Carolyn Simes the "Montana Wolf coordinator". Have you met her? Have you met any of the other Montana wolf managers? Give them a call and then tell me what you've learned.
P. S. the head of the entire wolf recovery effort also said recently that we should not be collaring the wolves anymore......kinda hard proving that there are more than 15 packs in the state without radio collars (those are the only packs that are included in the "official" count).
I've been to all the local meetings, during the planning process and after. I've met Carolyn Simes the "Montana Wolf coordinator". Have you met her? Have you met any of the other Montana wolf managers? Give them a call and then tell me what you've learned.
P. S. the head of the entire wolf recovery effort also said recently that we should not be collaring the wolves anymore......kinda hard proving that there are more than 15 packs in the state without radio collars (those are the only packs that are included in the "official" count).
And then this directly from MTFWP
Recommended Wolf Plan Highlights
AUGUST 21, 2003
Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks provided these highlights from the recommended Montana Gray Wolf Conservation and Management Plan:
Wolf Conservation and Management
Establishes an incremental approach to wolf management and control based on the presence of 15 breeding pairs of wolves
Establishes an active public outreach program to provide information, technical assistance and open lines of communication
Seeks to manage wolves in a manner similar to the way Montana manages mountain lions and black bears, based on habitat requirements and public acceptance
Provides the federally expected assurances that Montana can maintain more than 10 breeding pairs
Sets a benchmark of 15 breeding pairs to allow managers more latitude and greater confidence that local decisions to manage a wolf pack to resolve a conflict won't set the state back to the brink of endangering the wolf population
Offers FWP flexibility to manage and adjust wolf numbers and distribution
Allows for a regulated harvest of wolves as a wildlife management tool when the population reaches a level that is biologically sustainable Assures that Montana provides wolf-travel links between Wyoming, Idaho and Canada
Provides mechanisms for interagency and interstate cooperation
SOUNDS LIKE HUNTING TO ME
BigHornRam
Well-known member
From the lips of one of the wolf management at a recent local meeting. They do not plan to use hunting as a control measure for wolves as long as the elk populations remain where there at. If the elk population drops, they may or may not use hunting as a control method. Of course delisting would have to occur first before they will even consider hunting as a control method.
Some pretty open wording in the management plan as well. For instance:
"Seeks to manage wolves in a manner similar to the way Montana manages mountain lions and black bears, based on habitat requirements and public acceptance"
Change "seeks to" to "will" and I might have a little more confidence in the plan. Eliminate "in a manner similar to". Also add Montana in front of "public acceptance". I'm not real interested in whether or not people in California or New York "accept" the plan.
And....
"Allows for a regulated harvest of wolves as a wildlife management tool when the population reaches a level that is biologically sustainable"
Where's the definition of "biologically sustainable"? I thought 15 packs was the minimum management goal?
Some pretty open wording in the management plan as well. For instance:
"Seeks to manage wolves in a manner similar to the way Montana manages mountain lions and black bears, based on habitat requirements and public acceptance"
Change "seeks to" to "will" and I might have a little more confidence in the plan. Eliminate "in a manner similar to". Also add Montana in front of "public acceptance". I'm not real interested in whether or not people in California or New York "accept" the plan.
And....
"Allows for a regulated harvest of wolves as a wildlife management tool when the population reaches a level that is biologically sustainable"
Where's the definition of "biologically sustainable"? I thought 15 packs was the minimum management goal?
Moosie
Grand poopa
I hope you didn't get the impression that I "DIDn't" want to shoot one, Becasue I do. But I don't think they have Fed my other hutning up as bad as they have the road hunters and beer drinking campers Errrrr hunters........
Moosie
Grand poopa
280, Some posts aren't for you.
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