Thoughts on Wolves?

[BigHornRam]

Craig,

Should have put the "within the present rules" in bold and it would have made more sense to you. FWS will determine if Idaho's plan is within the rules. If Idaho has there ducks in a row then it will move ahead. If it does move ahead you can bet your last dollar it will all over the national news.

 

[stab]

Someone call the game warden, a Big Horn Ram just got slaughtered!

 

[A-con]

Fact is, without Wyoming writing a new plan the debate will go.

Crap, I'll write Wyoming a plan on my own ball sack with a quill pen if it will put an end to this thread !
|oo

 

[Basser]

Take that beotch!!!

 

[Ten Bears]

And the beat(ing) goes on......

BTW, Idaho's management plan was accepted. The Clearwater reduction plan, from my understanding, is a post delisting/management accepted plan and pre-full management authority action that requires approval from USFWS, but doesn't affect the original accepted plan. Not so much a culling action; let's think of it as a "thinning". Culling has such a harsh sound.......

 

[northwestalaska]

Wolves, Tree huggers and Bears Oh My!

Eric in AK is 100 % right on this inflamed issue. Before I start let me state out right that I hunt to put food on the table and I take at least 2 caribou and 1 moose every year (most years on the moose) so I am a hunter. I also make part of my living outfitting in the Northwestern part of Alaska 33 miles north of the Arctic Circle so I walk the walk and talk the talk

We live with wolves all around us and they are not seen by most people up here as the bad guys. They are hunted and they hunt as well. I have seen first hand a Bear kill a Caribou right in front of my camp and seen packs of wolves working a moose who was unlucky enough to get caught in deep snow. Both wolves and bears are part of the bigger picture. Show me an area that has no predators and I will show you a weak herd of ungulates. The wolves keep the caribou healthy so we don’t see sick and weak animals.

Look at the Eastern and Southeastern states that are being over run with deer that are reproducing like rabbits. Think about it guys and you will see that there are no predators left back there and the result is small, scrawny deer… everywhere!

So before you have your picture taken with a stuffed wolf flipping off the camera, (brave little Red Neck!) think about how the top predator helps keep your hunting animals healthy and you benefit by having a strong population to stalk.

One mans thoughts.

Northof67
Kotzebue Alaska

 

[BigHornRam]

NWA,

What kind of rotgut whiskey do you buy and drink up in Kotzebue? That must be why our Moose down here are so much smaller than yours, not enough predators. FYI we have plenty, and most here don't mind having them. We would just like to be able to manage them......just like Alaskan's already can.

 

[CabinetMtnsGoat]

NWA, uh, no predators and weak ungulates? Only in Ecology 101 for college freshman. Compare the health of Idaho's elk herds before and after the wild leg-lifters "returned". Compare the health of California's big horn's before and after lion hunting was banned and the lions exploded, etc, etc. Plenty of TWO LEGGED and four legged predators (bears?) in the east - throw "the book" away - it's all about politics - we can have anything we want by actually letting hunters play the role of any predator - only there are many who still believe in the book, the fairy god mother, didn't grow-up, still wet the bed and throw a fit if two-legged hunters/traditional westerners/conservatives/gun-owners/individual-rights-loving folks/(red-staters?) are having too good of a time. If you think this issue is about biology, I've got ocean-front land in northern Idaho to sell you...

 

[Hntnhrd]

BHR why do you keep beating your head against the wall with some of these yahoos. Most of them don't see first hand what these useless varmints do. If memory serves me correctly somewhere in Northeast Montana there was a "WOLFLIKE" animal running around this summer. The thing was finally shot and killed. People somewhere East of Havre were in a panic and the thing had to be killed.

All of you arquing for these worthless flea bags should tag a few minutes and go talk to people who work and make a living( or used too) were the wolves have taken hold. Not just ranchers but gas station owners , Hotel owners restaurant owners, etc... Now I know most of you won't ,it is alot easier to qoute most of my post and inject your barstool biology degrees. Wolves belong in the wilds of alaska. Not the Bitterroot valley with 50,000 people or Gardiner/West yellowstone MT. They were exterminated out of cattle country for a reason, they kill cattle. Letting them take hold again just doesn't make since. I am not a rancher but I feel like the elk of MT are partly "my cattle" and If I don't want wolves or other predators killing them than I think that my opinion should count in the equation. I have a lot more opinions on this this issue but I will let the huggers respond to this first.

 

[BuzzH]

hntnforaclue,

You need to find a clue.

Wolves are now part of the equation...get over it already. Nice rant by the way.

Your opinion would have counted in about 1993-1994 during the EIS process. You know, when concerned citizens actually took the time to comment on the wolf reintroduction.

Now, your opinion sounds like that of a small child that just spilled his kool-aid on the sidewalk.

My opinion and concerns were expressed and documented in the EIS process...from draft to final. I was in favor of reintroduction if the USFWS agreed to begin delisting as described in the EIS. WY is not allowing that to happen. Honestly, I didnt see the state of WY being the problem with delisting.

I say keep wolves at the minimum level required to keep them off the Endangered Species list. I dont care how its accomplished either through sport hunting, trapping, or government hunters.

There is enough elk in WY, ID, and MT to feed wolves and allow sport hunting.

There is also now enough wolves to allow sport hunting for them as well.

 

[JoseCuervo]

They were exterminated out of cattle country for a reason, they kill cattle. Letting them take hold again just doesn't make since. I am not a rancher but I feel like the elk of MT are partly "my cattle" and If I don't want wolves or other predators killing them than I think that my opinion should count in the equation.

Don't you think "your elk" might just do a bit better and have healthier populations if the cattle were removed from public lands, resulting in improvements in feed and habitat for MY ELK? If you want more Elk, get rid of the cows overgrazing on public lands.

 

[Ithaca 37]

If the wolves are killing all the elk, why has the elk harvest been going up since 2000?

Idaho Dept. of Fish and Game Elk Harvest Data 1996---2005

1996 25,600
1997 18,500
1998 18,800
1999 17,500
2000 17,200
2001 19,500
2002 16,361
2003 18,442
2004 20,925
2005 21,523

I think Idaho started their Zone Management plan in 1997 or 1999 (does anyone remember?). Zone management was designed to reduce the elk harvest, if I remember right.

Anyway, how do some of you anti-wolf nuts explain the elk harvest increase since 2000?

 

[Ithaca 37]

Hntnhrd, Since you're so upset about predators killing your elk, do you shoot a bear and a lion every year?

 

[shoots-straight]

I will say this about the issue were in, seems the Predator to prey balance has shifted here in Western Montana, Wolves are really everywhere, and lions have been somewhat protected along with the bears. ( new grizzly report from dna says we have over 500 along in the northern eco system.
Most predators are at highs accross the region and the State's been working hard at reducing the elk numbers through hunting.,

My statement is simple, the state loves the predators right now because they help them drop elk numbers, but the state will react to slowly as the decline thats inevitable will take place. A plummeting elk herd scares me because it took so long to build them up. Hope for easy winters and low hunter success until a season on wolves begin.

We really need to start managing the wolf.If we don't time will tell as to how drastic they'll have managed their own species.

 

[BigHornRam]

S. S.,

I'm having a little trouble following your line of thinking. You complain about Montana's "conservative" bear and cougar management, and yet you think that Montana's wolf management plan is better than Wyoming's vetoed management plan? How long do you think it will take for Montana's "slow to react" FWP to put together a wolf hunt now that delisting is taking place in our state? How long do you think it will take Wyoming to put together a hunt?

 

[JoseCuervo]

S. S.,

I'm having a little trouble following your line of thinking.

You can't expect everyone to use crayons just for your benefit.

 

[shoots-straight]

BHR,

There's very few in the FWP that aren't ready to act on the wolf once we get the go ahead, politics will have a part to play forsure.

The houndsmen have organized and are very vocal about hunting lions, seems they want as many as possible to chase and only want few shot. Same thing all of us want with any species that we hunt lots of prey for us and no compitition. We did get the lions knocked back for awhile, deer rebounded, now we're back where we started. Except now we have wolves.
Mind you I haven't changed my stance on them, they have a right to exist just that they need managed right now.

Grizzlies could be hunted again in the state and that's a fact. I have no reason to think we can't live with them, just need management.

Oh, I don't give a shit about Wyoming coming on-line with the wolf, as long as we get to harvest them without those morons.

I have no reason to think transplants shouldn't have a right to be here either such as yourself, again we need to manage your kind to keep them in balance. Knock a few in the head now and then.

 

[Hntnhrd]

Let's go one by one
Buzz head your my hero. If I lived in the west in the mid 90's I would have been fighting against wolves then. But like most residents of the west you probably could care less what someone from new england thought. Now that I live here I can see what the things have done here in the Bitterroot. If they all die from Parvo in the next couple years are they still part of the equation? like it or not?

JC I said I had many opinions on things( Some good some Bad) I think cattle grazing on public land is a joke. I agree that your elk and my elk deserve the grass that those cows are eating. Especially the grazing alotments I have seen in NM.

Ithaca How about some stats for the Selway? Shot a bear for the past few springs but haven't had an oppurtunity at a lion since 1996.

SS I will jump on board that they can be in the eco system if they get managed but I have a felling that there will be many lawsuits and herds getting out balance before that ever happens.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ithaca How about some stats for the Selway?

Sorry, I don't have them. You might be able to find them ay the ID F&G site. While the elk harvest is increasing since 2000, there are places where elk have been heavily impacted by wolves. That's why, to be a successful elk hunter, a person must learn to hunt them-- Not just go back to the same place every year.

 

[sreekers]

This is awesome, thread I started like 7 or 8 months ago got lit up again. Kind of crazy, same arguments as before too!