Thoughts on Wolves?

[cmiddleton]

why is it so hard to figure out the game and fish should fund game and fish and department of wildlife services or the usfws should fund wildlife its not to take money away its to add money to it.
its not that i can't shoot them at all. i don't hunt ducks but support the federal duck stamps. i don't hunt antalope unless it is to go with my son but i support them no problem.
my thought is that if both supported each they would have two times the money to work with. the feds should take the burden off the game and fish for griz and wolf and let the game and fish save that money to help mule deer
and game animals.
if they did it could have a big impact on the funding of wildlife and game.
you are to busy looking to cut folks down to read the intent.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Cmmiddddleton,

Do you have any idea who owns all the wildlife in Wyoming?

 

[JB]

Do you have any idea who owns all the wildlife in Wyoming?

i heard it was Texas.

 

[noharleyyet]

i heard it was Texas.

Well git em down here. I'll open the gates.

 

[sreekers]

Middleton,
If the feds were to have a say in our game and fish then they would be infringing upon the states rights to manage their own game as they see fit. The state owns its game animals. That is why there is such a vast variety of management plans. Wyoming on the one hand tends to lean towards fairly liberal seasons while keeping high numbers of animals in most areas. Arizona on the other hand prefers to have very conservative seasons and produce monster bulls that keeps people applying.

The point of all of this is that the state owns the game. This means all game and consequently all other species that belong to our ecosystem. Every animal plays a part and that is why money must go to all animals. This money is primarily raised through tag money and from different conservation stamps.

Another significant portion of the states rights to develop a game management process is the public meeting. This is your chance as a citizen to support the game and fish and tell them your thoughts in a public forum. This is where the game and fish decid what the needs are versus the wants of the public.

These are all rights we enjoy as a state in managing our own game. If we give that back to the feds at all we will lose some privilages, probably have to pay more, and have more paperwork to fill out for applications.

The worst part of that is we give back to the federal government some ownership of our game. When we do that we give some guy in New York the same voice which in turn means that he can tell us what to do with our game. I don't like that at all, we know the needs here, lets keep our voices.

 

[cmiddleton]

the game and fish has wanted to open grizz for hunting for years now but they still haven't delisted them. as long as its protected by esa the feds should pay all the bills. the biggest chunk of thr g&f budget is managing grizz
and the black footed ferret i think they do a great job but should be reimbersed for working with animals on the esa 100%

 

[JoseCuervo]

the biggest chunk of thr g&f budget is managing grizz and the black footed ferret i think they do a great job but should be reimbersed for working with animals on the esa 100%

cmmiddletoe.
Where did you lean that the biggest chunk of Wyoming's G&F Budget is managing Grizz and black footed ferrets? Was it the drunk on the barstool next to you, or the one passed out on the table next to the pool table on the way to the bathroom?

 

[Ten Bears]

Wooves eat meat; mostly elk and deer, but some sheep and cows too, that's what I think about wooves.

JOSE' I thought the name calling and belittling was restricted to the S.I. & C.E. forums. Did things change while I was out ATVing again?

 

[BuzzH]

Middleton,

Make a request to the Wyoming Game and Fish to not spend any portion of your $47 elk tag and your $35 deer tag on griz, wolf, or ferret management.

That way they'll have all kinds of money to fund elk and deer management...

It will also keep you from belly-aching about your money funding management for anything other than "dem der critters thet I can blast".

I'm sure your yearly contribution of $82 will really make or break game management.

 

[cmiddleton]

fysmd buzz and jose la chinga da madre cularows

 

[Dangerous Dave]

From what I'm getting out of this back and forth bantering is there's a certain amount of you posting who have already totally given up, are stewing in your own juices and accepting the inevitable, and the other half want to get this dislisting thing back on the fast track. Talked to a member of the Miwoc tribe gambling concession out here about this issue last week. All he could say was, "Man, they sure pulled a fast one us this time, didn't they? Just like the last last time." He wasn't too thrilled and he agree with me that wolves are the footsoldiers of antihunting. The falacy surrounding the tactic of wolf reintroduction is nothing more than another chapter in the silent, undeclared war on hunting and wildlife being waged for the last 30 years or so.
Also noticed a few patting themselves on the back for having such an accepting, enlightened additude towards wolf reintroductions. The nihilist midset of the preservationist stops at nothing in ushering in their version of the perfect ecosystem or world. Anyone who willingly assists and supports current wolf reintroduction and protection policy, should imeadiately start calling themselves something OTHER than "a hunter."
It's typical that a certain portion of a population will throw away with both hands that which they don't deserve. I hope this isn't what I'm hearing being said on this site. Those in the midst of plenty seem to be the last to realize it when their way of life is being terminally threatened. The wolves are killing and eating much more than elk, moose and deer. They are systematically depredating our collective national inheritence. How we respond will deturmine wheather we deserve to continue hunting or not.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Those in the midst of plenty seem to be the last to realize it when their way of life is being terminally threatened. The wolves are killing and eating much more than elk, moose and deer. They are systematically depredating our collective national inheritence. How we respond will deturmine wheather we deserve to continue hunting or not.

Oh my Grandma, what big eyes you have........

 

[BuzzH]

Dangerdave,

Peddle your unfounded fears somewhere else. Wolves will not eliminate hunting, and thats a fact.

Since the wolves were reintroduced into MT, ID, and WY elk and deer populations have exploded.

Try checking into the elk and deer management plans of the 3 states and you'll quickly find that each of the three states is offering more hunter opportunity now than before wolf reintroduction. In each of those states you can kill 2 elk per year and multiple deer. Elk populations in WY, ID, and MT are over objective in a vast majority of those states...yet...you still believe the anti's are using the wolves as a tool to end hunting???

Doesnt add up and I'm not going to be fooled by your unwarranted, unfounded, and total BS fear campaign.

I'd like to see wolves and grizzlies both delisted and have seasons to keep populations in check. But, that isnt the same ideology as what middleton has in mind. He wants every griz and wolf shot on sight. I'm not sure whether he's afraid of the dark, thinks little red riding hood is a true story, or just sucks at hunting and cant stand the imaginary competition he thinks wolves are to "his critters he can blast"???

I dont and have never denied that wolves have an impact...so do hunters...so does loss of habitat...so do welfare ranchers who over-grazing federal lands...so does punching CBM wells/roads/etc. into winter range...so does poaching...so does the local pack of neighbor dogs running deer all winter...etc. etc. etc.

Despite all that though, we still continue to see expanding populations, increased opportunity, longer seasons, and increased bag limits.

I tell you what will end hunting is people with middletons attitude that every predator should be shot on sight and hung on a fence. People like him who believe that if you cant shoot an animal...its worthless. People like that, with that kind of an attitude, absolutely will be what gets hunting shut down...no question about it. The 80% of the population that doesnt have an opinion one way or the other on hunting...will quickly become anti-hunters after listening to hillbillies like cmiddleton for 2 minutes.

 

[Excaliber]

New guy here, thought I'd add a bit on this Wolf Debate. I read most of this debate so far.

Buzz you say that Wyoming's plan is not acceptable to the USFWS so delisting can't occur.
This is true but did you mention that of all the Peer reviews that were done on Wyoming's Gray Wolf Management plan by biologists, all but one of them agreed that Wyoming's plan was acceptable and that it was more than adequate to ensure recovery.

I'm not sure but there were 7 or 9 Biologists that were hired to review Wyoming's plan.

The USFWS based their whole case for denying Wyoming's plan on the one desenting report of one Pro Wolf Biologist.

I like Wyoming's plan. They are the only state with any balls to stand up for what they believe in.

The USFWS is the reason Gray Wolves are not classified as delisted.

The E.S.A is a joke. It needs to be rewritten.

 

[BuzzH]

Excaliber,

Heres where you should have ended your reply...

"Buzz you say that Wyoming's plan is not acceptable to the USFWS so delisting can't occur.
This is true"

Everything you said after that is completely irrelevant.

Read the Environmental Impact Statement...one biologist or ten...it makes no difference. WY's plan is not acceptable.

WTF is so difficult about just photo-copying MT or ID's plan, change the state in the title to WY and get on with it. The delisting process starts and WY can start managing wolves.

Instead...WY can continue to lose its ass fighting big brother and the wolves continue to stay on the list and enjoy full federal protection.

Makes sense to me.

 

[JoseCuervo]

The E.S.A is a joke. It needs to be rewritten.

Why is it a joke and what changes would you make?

 

[BuzzH]

This should be good, I about asked the same question.

I'm guessing something along the lines of "we'll consider all species for the ES list at the sole request of welfare ranchers, hunting guides, big-oil executives, CBM developers, real-estate developers, agri-businesses, etc. etc. etc. We assure the public that things like species numbers, available habitat, and anything that interferes with a person making money will not influence what animals are listed. We further ensure that science will play no role what-so-ever in our decisions to list an animal. The last people we will take advice from is biologists, collage kids, and scientists".

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey Buzz,
You forgot the part where you need to compensate at 5x market value any landowner who lives within 100 miles of a Threatened or Endangered Speices in order to compensate them for the extra Hamm's Beer they will drink at the bar discussing how stupid the Federal Government is to list Salmon as endangered when there are fish farms in Norway that raise plenty of Salmon.

 

[BuzzH]

Thats some funny stuff...HAHA

Especially the hamms beer...HAHA.

 

[Excaliber]

Nice try but just because you are pro wolf doesn't mean that the USFWS is right.
The E.S.A needs to be addressed. Once an animal finds it's way onto the nlist it takes an act of God to get it off the list. The way it is now animals that should be removed from this list remain on it forever.

Let's take your Beloved Gray Wolves as an example. They are nowhere near close to endangered. They are thriving in Canada and now there is another population of Gray Wolves that has been successfully introduced here in the Tri-Sate area.

What about the naturally occuring Wolves in Idaho and Montana? Canus Lupus Irremotus and Nubilus? I guess it was OK for the Introduced Wolves to kill the few remaining Wolves that were here already. How do they fit into your heralded E.S.A?

Excaliber,

Heres where you should have ended your reply...

"Buzz you say that Wyoming's plan is not acceptable to the USFWS so delisting can't occur.
This is true"

Everything you said after that is completely irrelevant.

Read the Environmental Impact Statement...one biologist or ten...it makes no difference. WY's plan is not acceptable.

WTF is so difficult about just photo-copying MT or ID's plan, change the state in the title to WY and get on with it. The delisting process starts and WY can start managing wolves.

Instead...WY can continue to lose its ass fighting big brother and the wolves continue to stay on the list and enjoy full federal protection.

Makes sense to me.