The housing shortage and public lands

[Deleted member 28227]

@neffa brought up a great point.

I don’t like neighbors, but I hate ranchettes with a purple passion. Some friends just bought a 15 acre piece of heaven. I’m happy for them, but hate the reality of the subdivisions.

We’re forsaking the landscape for our own selves, which continues to exacerbate the problem of affordable housing availability.

Not to mention that the only private land to build on in a lot of these places happens to be the critical winter range for deer and elk.

 

[Otto Matic]

Do they speak in English or Nigerian?

Elven I suspect. Or maybe Dwarven. Fairy Tale First National is the only bank I know of that loans money free of charge.

Either of you ever figure out 0% loans or the official language of Nigeria? (English!)

I ain't lost nothing in Bunkerville. You boys have fun.
Have you decided who's going to open the Bunkerville ski resort?

 

[Gerald Martin]

My point is more zoning. 500 units of affordable for every 10 mega mansions or something like that, kids should have the opportunity to live near their parents.

Zoning adds expense, is from the devil and is un American.
True freedom allows us to expand any way we want to….

Thankfully, Bozeman city planners seem to be trying to address this. I don’t think anyone could anticipate the cost of housing rising so dramatically here and in other parts of the west.
We have talked within our own company about trying to meet some of those affordable housing needs as a way of protecting our ability to retain skilled tradesmen and workers. My guess is there is going to be a migration of highly motivated and productive people out of areas like Bozeman if there isn’t a market correction soon.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Let Otto tag along.

We’ll promote him as head scout/point man.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Zoning adds expense, is from the devil and is American.
True freedom allows us to expand any way we want to….

Thankfully, Bozeman city planners seem to be trying to address this. I don’t think anyone could anticipate the cost of housing rising so dramatically here and in other parts of the west.
We have talked within our own company about trying to meet some of those affordable housing needs as a way of protecting our ability to retain skilled tradesmen and workers. My guess is there is going to be a migration of highly motivated and productive people out of areas like Bozeman if there isn’t a market correction soon.

Totally and zoning allows for more growth therefore impact and kinda perpetuates the cycle. No easy answers.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Commi... errr... patriot
Salary for a starting teacher = $42,418
Salary for a cop = $60,152

Not everyone can be in construction.

I spent a lot of years in construction making less than either of those.
Always without the protection of my occupation being a necessary service and without knowing whether there would be another customer after this one.

I suck at spreadsheets, otherwise I would have probably not chosen construction as my professional career.

 

[Otto Matic]

We’ll promote him as head scout/point man.

Read post #142.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I spent a lot of years in construction making less than either of those.

Gotta adjust for inflation. $42,418 in 2021 is like $27,134 in 2000. But yeah I hear you.

 

[Gerald Martin]

As long as we can keep shooting cows in February on OTC tags during the shoulder seasons it’s still all good, right?

 

[LWC55]

@neffa brought up a great point.

I don’t like neighbors, but I hate ranchettes with a purple passion. Some friends just bought a 15 acre piece of heaven. I’m happy for them, but hate the reality of the subdivisions.

We’re forsaking the landscape for our own selves, which continues to exacerbate the problem of affordable housing availability.

I guess I don't follow. Unless I'm missing something, I'd rather see a nice house every 15 acres as opposed to 45 houses crammed into that same 15 acres.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I guess I don't follow. Unless I'm missing something, I'd rather see a nice house every 15 acres as opposed to 45 houses crammed into that same 15 acres.

Those 15 acre horse ghettos tear up tons of prime winter habitat in the west. Much different than other states. People will take 3 sections and turn it into a wasteland of septic systems & weeds when it used to be home to endemic wildlife.

 

[Gerald Martin]

My point in all of this is that it hasn’t been easy for any generation to make ends meet and own property.

My Dad told me when I left home that I would either pay rent or interest. The choice was up to me. I figured it made more sense to pay interest.
There’s a lot of things I didn’t get to experience because I wanted to own a home and didn’t have the financial flexibility to some some other things.

 

[Irrelevant]

See sig line. It's the elephant in the room. Why is everything based on growth? And when will be learn to live without it? Or are we doomed, like the cancer cell, to grow until we kill our host?

 

[Ben Lamb]

My point in all of this is that it hasn’t been easy for any generation to make ends meet and own property.

My Dad told me when I left home that I would either pay rent or interest. The choice was up to me. I figured it made more sense to pay interest.
There’s a lot of things I didn’t get to experience because I wanted to own a home and didn’t have the financial flexibility to some some other things.

But the flip side here is that previous generations had a much lower barrier to entry than current ones do.

Ours included, pal. Gen X was one of the last to be able to pull this off.

 

[Ben Lamb]

See sig line. It's the elephant in the room. Why is everything based on growth? And when will be learn to live without it? Or are we doomed, like the cancer cell, to grow until we kill our host?

Our hubris thinks we'll destroy the earth. We'll just destroy ourselves. The earth will heal eventually and likely be far better off if humanity got the Thanos snap.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I guess I don't follow. Unless I'm missing something, I'd rather see a nice house every 15 acres as opposed to 45 houses crammed into that same 15 acres.

Winter range??? Do the math

 

[JLS]

It’s not just winter range. It’s also bigger human travel corridors, riparian zone development, greater conflict with wild fire, noxious weeds, reduced wildlife migration corridors, increased wildlife conflicts, and the list goes on. The smaller and more compact our footprint is, the better off the landscape is.

There is absolutely nothing aesthetically pleasing to me about nice homes scattered on 5 to 15 acre lots. Nothing.

 

[LWC55]

Winter range??? Do the math

I see. But if it is private land it will likely all be cut up into smaller chunks and developed...eventually. I see 15 acre ranchettes as somewhat of a barrier to 1/3 acre lots as far as the eye can see. I guess preferably everyone (but me) would live in a city and not encroach on the resources of our wildlife.

 

[Irrelevant]

Our hubris thinks we'll destroy the earth. We'll just destroy ourselves. The earth will heal eventually and likely be far better off if humanity got the Thanos snap.

100%, I chose my words poorly.

 

[BirdManMike]

I have always been a big fan of Soviet architecture.

It has a certain bleakness to it that just screams, 'Dont make me put on my track pants to come down there to beat you with this potato' (but said with less articles obv because we are speaking Russian in my head picture).