The housing shortage and public lands

[Gerald Martin]

I'm fine nuking Big Sky. And any town where you can buy $5000 bottles of wine while some poor kid lives in a tent to serve the would be lords & ladies. I'm an American though, and I hate aristocracy. Get yer hands off my tea, King George!

Or, we can recognize that the economic model that values investment revenue over production revenue and community development is what's killing us as the line between the wealthy & the rest of us grows larger.

Please give me a heads up before the mushroom cloud goes up. I want to call in sick that day.

In the grand scheme of things it’s always a bit complicated. I would rather the ultra wealthy spend money for things which I could never afford and contribute to the economy than just park it in banks.
The customer on my current project is helping a couple dozen contractors make their mortgage payments and raise their families.
I just payed a plumber double his local going rate, his lodging and a trip per diem to plumb his remodel. The 12-15 local plumbing companies I contacted were too busy to take it on.
McDonald’s is starting workers at $19.
Housing prices are high it’s true but if someone has a desire to work and some aptitude for making themselves productive and valuable there is lots of opportunity.
This customer also has ties to some recognizable conservation projects as well.

 

[Elkmagnet]

In some places 0% to 1.5%.
I'm not trying to beat a drum, but Trump's economy had housing prices down, building materials affordable and APR rates (3% to 5%) where a working man could afford a home and a loan.

Not here. The last time housing was affordable was Obamas second term. I don't think housing being down is the best economic sign but thats just me.

 

[morley.tyler]

You will remember Dexter's accommodations in Aspen Extreme.

Underrated comment

 

[Ben Lamb]

Please give me a heads up before the mushroom cloud goes up. I want to call in sick that day.

In the grand scheme of things it’s always a bit complicated. I would rather the ultra wealthy spend money for things which I could never afford and contribute to the economy than just park it in banks.
The customer on my current project is helping a couple dozen contractors make their mortgage payments and raise their families.
I just payed a plumber double his local going rate, his lodging and a trip per diem to plumb his remodel. The 12-15 local plumbing companies I contacted were too busy to take it on.
McDonald’s is starting workers at $19.
Housing prices are high it’s true but if someone has a desire to work and some aptitude for making themselves productive and valuable there is lots of opportunity.
This customer also has ties to some recognizable conservation projects as well.

I get it and I'm glad you're doing well. But the concentration of wealth among a few is exactly what we rebelled against. I don't want to trade monarchs for oligarchs.

And while you guys are making that bank, there's 100's of folks waiting on a call from an electrician or plumber to help them deal with their issues, but because the rich dude with the mansion is willing to pay that double wage, those locals get screwed on the services they need.

 

[Gerald Martin]

My assessment of the average mentality of service workers at a resort like Big Sky is most of them are there for the perks of recreation associated with the resort as much as for the financial compensation.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I get it and I'm glad you're doing well. But the concentration of wealth among a few is exactly what we rebelled against. I don't want to trade monarchs for oligarchs.

I am doing my best to distribute some of that wealth concentrated in the hands of the few to as many people as possible.

The bubble of Big Sky is definitely an anomaly.

However, is wealth as we think of it today as tied to resource consumption as we tend to think? Is wealth a finite amount of money hoarded by the few or is it an economic concept?

 

[Ben Lamb]

I am doing my best to distribute some of that wealth concentrated in the hands of the few to as many people as possible.

The bubble of Big Sky is definitely an anomaly.

However, is wealth as we think of it today as tied to resource consumption as we tend to think? Is wealth a finite amount of money hoarded by the few or is it an economic concept?

The issue is that it's tied up and not circulating among the people. it produces nothing but more wealth for an individual. That money spread throughout the community is what built the middle class in America in the 1950's - 1970's.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I get it and I'm glad you're doing well. But the concentration of wealth among a few is exactly what we rebelled against. I don't want to trade monarchs for oligarchs.

Commi... errr... patriot

Please give me a heads up before the mushroom cloud goes up. I want to call in sick that day.

In the grand scheme of things it’s always a bit complicated. I would rather the ultra wealthy spend money for things which I could never afford and contribute to the economy than just park it in banks.
The customer on my current project is helping a couple dozen contractors make their mortgage payments and raise their families.
I just payed a plumber double his local going rate, his lodging and a trip per diem to plumb his remodel. The 12-15 local plumbing companies I contacted were too busy to take it on.
McDonald’s is starting workers at $19.
Housing prices are high it’s true but if someone has a desire to work and some aptitude for making themselves productive and valuable there is lots of opportunity.
This customer also has ties to some recognizable conservation projects as well.

I feel like this is the ethos of the mountain ski town. End result is a town with a shit load of giant houses, sucking power off the grid 365 days a year that no one lives in, that drive up the prices of housing and take up all the buildable land so you can't have affordable housing.

Salary for a starting teacher = $42,418
Salary for a cop = $60,152

Not everyone can be in construction.

 

[Otto Matic]

"... But the concentration of wealth among a few is exactly what we rebelled against. ..."

Uhhmmm..... I thought the "rebellion" was over "taxation without representation"?
The "Boston Tea Party" kinda stuff?

 

[Ben Lamb]

"... But the concentration of wealth among a few is exactly what we rebelled against. ..."

Uhhmmm..... I thought the "rebellion" was over "taxation without representation"?
The "Boston Tea Party" kinda stuff?

Taxation w/o representation by the monarch is the concentration of wealth among the few. The taxation issue was about local businessmen not being able to build their own wealth because it was being siphoned off by someone who produced nothing, and hoarded wealth - the King.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Personally speaking, when I built my house, I consumed a certain amount of resources but paid very little for labor other than what was required to produce those resources. That was because financial constraints made me and my subjugated kids do the labor
The customer on my project is consuming about 30%more material resources than my house did, yet he is paying nearly four times the cost of my home just for labor and materials.
His unit is in a high capacity housing area. My house is on 2 1/2 acres of a subdivided piece of land that is a defunct ranchette.

Who is the better contributor to our economy?
I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know that every time we look to the government to take from the “undeserving wealthy” to give to the “more deserving” it ends up killing opportunity.
Those willing to work end up subsidizing the unwilling. My family and myself worked from a position of necessity not convenience. I assume (unless proven otherwise) that many wealthy people did the same and learned how to leverage their knowledge and ability into a position that few will realize. As such, I am not jealous of their success. Nor do I revile them because they have more money.

 

[Ben Lamb]

@Gerald, when we had heavy taxation on wealth, we had innovations that led the world into the modern era. We were the economic juggernaut that produced advances that the world gobbled up.

When we eliminated that tax structure and focused on personal wealth over everything else, we stopped innovating and leading, pensions died, and the middle class started shrinking into the working poor.

That person paying 4 times the value for something is a short term shot in the arm. The CEO who reinvests the profits back into his company to innovate and develop new markets created far more wealth than the rich guy adding a 5th bathroom.

 

[Otto Matic]

Taxation w/o representation by the monarch is the concentration of wealth among the few. The taxation issue was about local businessmen not being able to build their own wealth because it was being siphoned off by someone who produced nothing, and hoarded wealth - the King.

Ben L, maybe read up on the "Stamp Act of 1765" and young Patrick Henry.

 

[BackofBeyond]

Im with ya although I definitely feel that is two different discussions.
We call this place
kraft Hidden valley ranch. Now with less wildlife!

"Hidden Springs is a 1,844-acre master-planned community built around a 130-year old working farm in the Dry Creek Valley, just north of Boise and east of Eagle. The community encompasses more than 1,000 homes in the hills north of Boise, Idaho,"

Hidden Springs Subdivision Boise ID 83714

Hidden Springs is a rural community developed in the tradition of Idaho's small towns, while carefully preserving the natural surroundings of Dry Creek Valley.

www.buildidaho.com

Just don't leave your garage door half open... may get more of a show than you bargained for out there in Hidden Swings.

 

[Irrelevant]

I am doing my best to distribute some of that wealth concentrated in the hands of the few to as many people as possible.

But it only works if it's growing. What happens when there's no more land to develop?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Commi... errr... patriot




I feel like this is the ethos of the mountain ski town. End result is a town with a shit load of giant houses, sucking power off the grid 365 days a year that no one lives in, that drive up the prices of housing and take up all the buildable land so you can't have affordable housing.

Salary for a starting teacher = $42,418
Salary for a cop = $60,152

Not everyone can be in construction.

Living in a mountain ski town is almost always a matter of preference for the location rather than an attempt at living in the most economical or energy efficient way.
Personally, I don’t even see the appeal of Big Sky. Most of it feels artificial and fake. I don’t ski.
But folks that do are going to give their money to someone. I am happy to facilitate that.

That process is what has allowed me to contribute locally to the community as I raise my family.

Not everyone can live in Vail, Big Sky or Bozeman. In fact there are multiple young families I know of who have taken advantage of the high housing prices to sell their homes and move back east to where they think they have more opportunity to succeed in achieving their goals.

 

[Gerald Martin]

But it only works if it's growing. What happens when there's no more land to develop?

We head down to Bunkerville with bigger guns than Brother Bundy and exercise our God given second amendment American rights.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Living in a mountain ski town is almost always a matter of preference for the location rather than an attempt at living in the most economical or energy efficient way.
Personally, I don’t even see the appeal of Big Sky. Most of it feels artificial and fake. I don’t ski.
But folks that do are going to give their money to someone. I am happy to facilitate that.

That process is what has allowed me to contribute locally to the community as I raise my family.

Not everyone can live in Vail, Big Sky or Bozeman. In fact there are multiple young families I know of who have taken advantage of the high housing prices to sell their homes and move back east to where they think they have more opportunity to succeed in achieving their goals.

Bozeman and big sky are a bit of a different situation as Bozeman is huge, has tons of room to expand... and has a college lol

But Jackson, Aspen, Vail, Telluride, etc. Pretty crazy how far out you have to go to find achievable housing costs.

My point is more zoning. 500 units of affordable for every 10 mega mansions or something like that, kids should have the opportunity to live near their parents.

But it only works if it's growing. What happens when there's no more land to develop?

Which is basically where ski towns are and have been for a while

 

[JLS]

@neffa brought up a great point.

I don’t like neighbors, but I hate ranchettes with a purple passion. Some friends just bought a 15 acre piece of heaven. I’m happy for them, but hate the reality of the subdivisions.

We’re forsaking the landscape for our own selves, which continues to exacerbate the problem of affordable housing availability.

 

[tjones]

We head down to Bunkerville with bigger guns than Brother Bundy and exercise our God given second amendment American rights.

Let Otto tag along.