The housing shortage and public lands

[SFC B]

OMG -

"You draw your Steamboat tag this year?"
"No way brah, point creep killed Steamboat, I only put in for late March Tuesdays at Eldora and then pick up leftovers for Howelsen and throw a few bucks at the Raffle for Copper Mt weekend days"

Sadly - some flavor of that is not out of the question in my lifetime.


If you're saying Colorado has seen a 'shift in politics' in 12 years, thats a non-starter. How many R governors have we elected in the last 50 years?

The answer is 1.

What has happened in that time period is that the state has gone from a slightly conservative leaning purple to a solid blue where the overwhelming (by area) majority of the state is now rule by uber liberal (sanctuary cities, refusing to honor the state open carry law, etc) DEN metroplex. That one VERY simplistic metric of the governor's office is in no way an indicator. I have no idea what your perception of the state has been in the last twelve years, but as someone who moved here from the outside this is what I know to be true.......I believe the current governor and his policies (let alone the wolf fiasco and late term abortion allowance) are a perfect example of how bad it has gotten.

BTW, there have been 3 R governors in that time period, not one......but if you want to split hairs about their "election" dates for hyperbole I guess that is cool. Have a good one.

 

[OntarioHunter]

... After reading all of it, the only thing that really stuck with me was to respond to Ontario Hunter and say that perhaps the reason your neighbors are asking you why you don’t move back to Montana is not because they want to know why.

Most people up here have a rose-colored perception of life in the US and Montana in particular. I'm pushing seventy and have lived and worked on both sides of the 49th. Canada isn't perfect (I suggest Philosophy 101, particularly the unit on Plato, re the perception of perfection), but it is head and shoulders above life in the US.

People today think they must have nature jumping up in view every morning when they wake up. Without that they can't be whole with the natural world. Two problems with that. As any of my generation who were raised in the West can confirm (if they are honest with themselves), covering the place with homes, roads, etc. ruins everyone's view ... and a lot more. It ceases to be "natural." It's fake. Second, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One does not need snow capped mountains jumping up in sight to feel bonded to nature. Yesterday as we sat eating lunch at a highway truck stop after delivering my grandson to his paternal grandma, I pointed out a black spruce at the end of the parking lot to my daughter. "Isn't that something?" She was baffled: "It's just a pine [sic] tree, Dad. What's so special about that one?" "Look closely. That tree is the only one like it ... ever. Since the beginning of time till the end of the earth, there will never be another like it. The days of its life have shaped it just like your days on this earth have shaped you. Sunlight, cold, rain, wind, they all made that tree the unique living thing you see today. And by tomorrow morning it will be a different tree with a different story to tell, not in the English language, but there for you to read nonetheless ... if you take the time to look." I can be just as inspired threading my way through head high cattails when chasing pheasants outside Malta as I am when I approach the Rocky Mountain Front driving through Cutbank. The difference is when deep in the cattails I don't have to look over or around a whole bunch of civilization to bond with my environment. And I'm slogging through tulies face to face with God's creation, not sitting in some temperature controlled car or house pretending to be a part of Mother Nature.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Better solution: 90% of all lift tickets are for locals only. 10% for the NR assholes.
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Better solution: 90% of all lift tickets are for locals only. 10% for the NR assholes.

thats right! There was a court ruling that all ski lift tickets are held in trust for the residents of said state.

 

[Oak]

BTW, there have been 3 R governors in that time period, not one......but if you want to split hairs about their "election" dates for hyperbole I guess that is cool. Have a good one.

At the risk of splitting hairs, Vanderhoof wasn't elected, he replaced Love when Love resigned to serve as Director of the Office of Energy Policy for Nixon.

 

[TheNorthStar]

Of course my friends get a little bit more than my enemies…. It’s just the way the world works….

Hey, buddy! Would you like to come over to my place for dinner on Sunday?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Hey, buddy! Would you like to come over to my place for dinner on Sunday?

Depends what we are eating… coincidentally my friends list has grown a bit since this thread started and my schedule is filling up.

 

[noharleyyet]

 

[jejack26]

My brother and I, and our future wives skied Big Sky over college winter break 1988. Lift tickets were $25. Lodging was affordable even for cash strapped college kids. I remember seeing a fur coat in one of the shops with a $30,000 price tag! Can you even find a real fur coat in one of these ski towns anymore?

I saw that same coat that year, so funny

 

[Trap]

I am doing my best to distribute some of that wealth concentrated in the hands of the few to as many people as possible.

The bubble of Big Sky is definitely an anomaly.

However, is wealth as we think of it today as tied to resource consumption as we tend to think? Is wealth a finite amount of money hoarded by the few or is it an economic concept?

I have never received a job from a “poor” person. People look at wealth creation as some sort of poker game. Where for me to leave with more money I would have to take some from you or somebody else. It’s the opposite and the super wealthy you are working for is creating wealth for you and sounds like you are bringing others along for the ride. Good for you. Creating an us versus the wealthy mentality never works. Asking the government to take more from the wealthy to give to us less fortunate stifles wealth creation and is a massively inefficient way to spread wealth around. Mainly a large amount of others wealth taken is eaten up by government bureaucrats. After all we have to hire people to take other’s money and more people to make sure we give it to the right people. There has to be great rewards to take great risks so I don’t envy or detest the super rich. We have created more wealth in this country for everyone than any nation ever. If you don’t believe it travel more and don’t just stay in fancy resorts. America’s poorest live way above 80 percent of the world’s population. We can recognize that or get pissed because it’s not fair that Jeff bezos had 50 billion? The middle class started disappearing when we started shipping jobs overseas and it really accelerated with nafta and after. College has screwed a lot of people pushing idealogy rather than real world training and over charging for it. I went to college for 6 years and have a masters which got me into my career but now days it’s a rip off in many ways. (Says the dad sending his boy to college this year) he wants to come into my business and it’s a requirement. We need to re emphasize trade schools and put a higher value on plumbers,electricians etc. As a country we over emphasize 4 year academic degrees and they teach way liberal ideals over practical business skills and over charge you for the privilege. Quit hating on the 1 percent that creates wealth for all willing to pursue it. We need to focus on bringing back skilled labor, reforming the educational system especially cost and not higher tax rates for the wealthy but simplified taxes where some of the upper end loopholes are eliminated. Sorry folks the “rich” they are talking about sticking it to right now are w-2 people already paying 40-50 percent depending on there state. Anyways good job spreading that money around Bozeman

 

[SFC B]

When @SFC B gets busted in the NYC subway with a pocket knife are we super liberal pro crime or super conservative hard on crime.

How about the anti-vagrant laws in MA aka no camping? Those shit hole reliving or inducing

At the risk of splitting hairs, Vanderhoof wasn't elected, he replaced Love when Love resigned to serve as Director of the Office of Energy Policy for Nixon.

You are correct, I only brought up the total number due to the attempt at hyperbole at ignoring 2 of the R governors that did serve during the period. I really don't care about parties at all, I do care about the trajectory of the state during the time I have been here. When you get to the point where the voting majority is fine with late term abortion and thinks that protecting the wolves that are here isn't enough so we need to import more, it does not look good. I am thankful that due to the overwhelming majority of military connected folks in the Springs we retain a large portion of reasonableness.

 

[Otto Matic]

You are correct, I only brought up the total number due to the attempt at hyperbole at ignoring 2 of the R governors that did serve during the period. I really don't care about parties at all, I do care about the trajectory of the state during the time I have been here. When you get to the point where the voting majority is fine with late term abortion and thinks that protecting the wolves that are here isn't enough so we need to import more, it does not look good. I am thankful that due to the overwhelming majority of military connected folks in the Springs we retain a large portion of reasonableness.

Maybe institute a sort of electoral college to keep massively liberal metro (Denver, etc.) from dominating the entire state?
i.e. - keep CA and NY from dominating elections

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You are correct, I only brought up the total number due to the attempt at hyperbole at ignoring 2 of the R governors that did serve during the period. I really don't care about parties at all, I do care about the trajectory of the state during the time I have been here. When you get to the point where the voting majority is fine with late term abortion and thinks that protecting the wolves that are here isn't enough so we need to import more, it does not look good. I am thankful that due to the overwhelming majority of military connected folks in the Springs we retain a large portion of reasonableness.

You moved to CO and want the people in the state to adhere your personal politics. Seems like folks with different politics are doing the same.

 

[MarvB]

Maybe institute a sort of electoral college to keep massively liberal metro (Denver, etc.) from dominating the entire state?
i.e. - keep CA and NY from dominating elections

Good luck with that... pretty hard to name one western state that either doesn’t already face that now (metro ruled) or won’t in the near future.

Kinda like out here where they always want to make some border change with Nor Cal/So&E OR/NV/ID under the premise of small self governing. I’d love to break from the dealings of Portland but also don’t know about then living in the poorest and most underrepresented “new” state in the union.

 

[Trap]

I think we tend to confuse effective government with small government.

Effective government is like jumbo shrimp it’s an oxymoron. That is why people confuse effective with small. How well do you feel the government has managed social programs. I will start with social security and Medicaid.

 

[JLS]

The blessing and curse of the average citizen having a voice in government, you can effect change, but it’s only a good thing if you agree with it.

 

[Trap]

That's funny. Our paper just ran an article where the relatively liberal City was complaining about the conservative County prosecutors dept for not following through on property crimes. The County has staffing shortages because the conservative commission slashed taxes and budgets- because... well, that's the what conservatives do right?

Homelessness and drug use go hand and hand and no one has solved that problem. No one from either party.

I was very active in a homeless program. They have a solution and it involved no drinking or drug use while staying in the shelter, a recovery program, a program to get them back in the workforce and transitional housing and a Christian aspect so they take NO government money. All funded by individual donations. Biggest enemy they have/had helping the homeless recover was shelters that just fed and housed them for the night with no alcohol/drug restrictions nothing just free food and housing which enables them to stay homeless and addicted. Last I heard Seattle is providing free needles and injection sites that’s a liberal approach and it’s killing those people and leading to a much worse homeless problem. There’s a solution working right now the liberals don’t want it

 

[Sytes]

Supporters of the, "You're a voter of one party or the other, there's no "Independent" voter..." are the downfall of an effective government. It should be on the principles of the politician not the Jackass or Dumbo that politician rides upon.


Edit: Principles and grammar / proofreading pre-release - reason I'm not a politician. Changed "is" to "are" and added "of". All within two sentences... meh, it's internet yammer...

 

[Trap]

Late to the party here, but I don't know about the assumption that so many wealthy people build that from hard work. Maybe the upper-middle class, but the ultra-rich become that way based on preferential ways to build wealth without tax. My position of a comfortable middle class life is based a bit on hard work and social skills, and a lot on my dad dying young with good life insurance, and my grandparents dying relatively young and quickly. Hardly the model we want to encourage all Americans to follow.

Peter Thiel Has Accumulated $5 Billion In A Tax Free Roth IRA Designed To Help The Middle Class Save For Retirement, According To New Report

Here’s how he did it.

www.forbes.com

Umm anyone could have done exactly what Peter thiel accomplished. There is an income limit on Roth contributions so the wealthy can’t even use one. He met that income limit and purchased a couple great stocks and turned 2000 dollars into 5 billion? That greedy bastard!!! Wait any waitress,school teacher, police officer or ditch digger could have done the EXACT same thing. Ya but I’m not as good of a stock picker and that’s not fair !!!

 

[Trap]

The difference between the median income level and your impoverish welfare abusers making $0 is $78k (per the 2020 median family income); vs the difference between that same median income and the average of the top 1% is $1,622,000 (1,700k-78k). So how much is your construction project actually "relieving" anything?


Probably, but aren't we also talking about the spectrum of all Americans and their access to shelter? When we have people paying a huge premium to build a home because they can and just down the road we have people who live in effectively third world conditions, I don't think we can look at the dispensable income spending of 1%-ers as an affective economic policy that furthers the American Dream.

The lowest income people in America live better than 90 percent of the world. Huge parts of the world live without indoor plumbing electricity etc. you folks need to get out more. But you’re right the best use of our talents and abilities are to hate the rich. Go get a job from one of those people see what you can accomplish.

 

[Otto Matic]

Party affiliations.

"You can't reason a person out of a position they've reasoned themselves into."