The housing shortage and public lands

[4ohSick]

Personally speaking, when I built my house, I consumed a certain amount of resources but paid very little for labor other than what was required to produce those resources. That was because financial constraints made me and my subjugated kids do the labor
The customer on my project is consuming about 30%more material resources than my house did, yet he is paying nearly four times the cost of my home just for labor and materials.
His unit is in a high capacity housing area. My house is on 2 1/2 acres of a subdivided piece of land that is a defunct ranchette.

Who is the better contributor to our economy?
I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know that every time we look to the government to take from the “undeserving wealthy” to give to the “more deserving” it ends up killing opportunity.
Those willing to work end up subsidizing the unwilling. My family and myself worked from a position of necessity not convenience. I assume (unless proven otherwise) that many wealthy people did the same and learned how to leverage their knowledge and ability into a position that few will realize. As such, I am not jealous of their success. Nor do I revile them because they have more money.

Late to the party here, but I don't know about the assumption that so many wealthy people build that from hard work. Maybe the upper-middle class, but the ultra-rich become that way based on preferential ways to build wealth without tax. My position of a comfortable middle class life is based a bit on hard work and social skills, and a lot on my dad dying young with good life insurance, and my grandparents dying relatively young and quickly. Hardly the model we want to encourage all Americans to follow.

Peter Thiel Has Accumulated $5 Billion In A Tax Free Roth IRA Designed To Help The Middle Class Save For Retirement, According To New Report

Here’s how he did it.

www.forbes.com

 

[Irrelevant]

discourage prosecuting of criminals, encouraging illegal entry, defunding the police, etc....

That's funny. Our paper just ran an article where the relatively liberal City was complaining about the conservative County prosecutors dept for not following through on property crimes. The County has staffing shortages because the conservative commission slashed taxes and budgets- because... well, that's the what conservatives do right?

Homelessness and drug use go hand and hand and no one has solved that problem. No one from either party.

 

[hank4elk]

Public lands years behind in $, being overused by folks who have no $,being starved by folks who have all the $ and pay nothing into kitty is the issue.
Largest tranfer of wealth and they still pay no taxes to support the government they use to profit themselves and their heirs.Like monarchs. Oh,we don't got none o deem................

 

[Europe]

Did someone say bluegrass?!!! This one’s for you @Europe.

Thank you.

One of the "music" thoughts I had earlier this morning when browsing this thread was

Luckenback, Texas--Waylon ( and a little willie ) Several posters on the friday music thread might agree with Waylon

"guitars tuned good and firm feeling women"

 

[Gerald Martin]

Maybe they do know how to do it better in Texas.

 

[noharleyyet]

Maybe they do know how to do it better in Texas.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Never get into a battle of wits with a Sicilian or a contest of superlatives with a Texan.

 

[BigHornRam]

The vast majority of graft from the COVID payments was corporate. Like Tom Brady buying a yacht while taking $4 million in gov't handouts.

I called both my Senators, twice, and said don't do this. They did it anyway. Results were predictable as hogs at the trough. We haven't even come down from the latest sugar high and now they're ramming through an "infrastructure" package. Damn glad I don't have kids to be put on the hook for this. Carry on with the discussion.

 

[RobertD]

I called both my Senators, twice, and said don't do this. They did it anyway. Results were predictable as hogs at the trough. We haven't even come down from the latest sugar high and now they're ramming through an "infrastructure" package. Damn glad I don't have kids to be put on the hook for this. Carry on with the discussion.

Wasn't it Thomas Massie who balked at the CARES Act and like the entirety of Congress and Pres Trump were ready to just skewer him?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Late to the party here, but I don't know about the assumption that so many wealthy people build that from hard work. Maybe the upper-middle class, but the ultra-rich become that way based on preferential ways to build wealth without tax. My position of a comfortable middle class life is based a bit on hard work and social skills, and a lot on my dad dying young with good life insurance, and my grandparents dying relatively young and quickly. Hardly the model we want to encourage all Americans to follow.

Peter Thiel Has Accumulated $5 Billion In A Tax Free Roth IRA Designed To Help The Middle Class Save For Retirement, According To New Report

Here’s how he did it.

www.forbes.com

Isn’t the $64,000 question how much we can rely on government to control everything to curtail those who abuse systems put in place to help a majority?

To my earlier point, I have no doubts that many people are gaming the systems in ways that aren’t appropriate. Ultra wealthy with shady tax shelters, impoverished welfare recipients who are capable of working but don’t, etc…

I would rather concentrate on reliving the wealthy of some of their money through voluntary and mutually beneficial business transactions than entrust bureaucrats to take it and shove crumbs my way.
I don’t have enough time or energy to discern whether everyone with a greater bank account balance than myself gained their money in an way I approve of.

In the grand scheme of personal wealth everyone commenting on this thread is in the top 10% of world wide economic status.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Never get into a battle of wits with a Sicilian or a contest of superlatives with a Texan.

Both are usually devoid of intellectual ammo but have plenty of the stuff that goes bang. A lethal combination.

 

[4ohSick]

Isn’t the $64,000 question how much we can rely on government to control everything to curtail those who abuse systems put in place to help a majority?

To my earlier point, I have no doubts that many people are gaming the systems in ways that aren’t appropriate. Ultra wealthy with shady tax shelters, impoverished welfare recipients who are capable of working but don’t, etc…

I would rather concentrate on reliving the wealthy of some of their money through voluntary and mutually beneficial business transactions than entrust bureaucrats to take it and shove crumbs my way.
I don’t have enough time or energy to discern whether everyone with a greater bank account balance than myself gained their money in an way I approve of.

In the grand scheme of personal wealth everyone commenting on this thread is in the top 10% of world wide economic status.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but there are still public services that have to be funded by taxes and shifting more and more of that onto the middle class just furthers inequality. It's fine and dandy that Bezos' McMansion in the Yellowstone Club is helping local contractors, but the road to get there is getting paid for by those contractors, not him.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I agree with you to a certain extent, but there are still public services that have to be funded by taxes and shifting more and more of that onto the middle class just furthers inequality. It's fine and dandy that Bezos' McMansion in the Yellowstone Club is helping local contractors, but the road to get there is getting paid for by those contractors, not him.

Chicken or egg?
I wouldn’t drive up there if the market wasn’t stronger there.
Higher wages puts me into a category where Uncle Sugar’s IRS digs a little deeper.

It all gets confusing after a while…..

 

[Elkmagnet]

To my earlier point, I have no doubts that many people are gaming the systems in ways that aren’t appropriate. Ultra wealthy with shady tax shelters, impoverished welfare recipients who are capable of working but don’t, etc…

I would rather concentrate on reliving the wealthy of some of their money through voluntary and mutually beneficial business transactions than entrust bureaucrats to take it and shove crumbs my way.
I don’t have enough time or energy to discern whether everyone with a greater bank account balance than myself gained their money in an way I approve of.

In the grand scheme of personal wealth everyone commenting on this thread is in the top 10% of world wide economic status.

This is the thinking that has gotten us here.
They want us all to keep our heads down
as they gradually shift more burden to you.

 

[LWC55]

That's funny. Our paper just ran an article where the relatively liberal City was complaining about the conservative County prosecutors dept for not following through on property crimes. The County has staffing shortages because the conservative commission slashed taxes and budgets- because... well, that's the what conservatives do right?

Homelessness and drug use go hand and hand and no one has solved that problem. No one from either party.

I think I heard of that city. It's out there by Anecdotal, ID. Next time you see politicians of any flavor slashing taxes, you should take a picture. Very rare in my experience.

 

[Gerald Martin]

This is the thinking that has gotten us here.
They want us all to keep our heads down
as they gradually shift more burden to you.

*^%##^ Liberals! Or is it *#^}%Conservatives?

 

[Irrelevant]

Isn’t the $64,000 question how much we can rely on government to control everything to curtail those who abuse systems put in place to help a majority?

To my earlier point, I have no doubts that many people are gaming the systems in ways that aren’t appropriate. Ultra wealthy with shady tax shelters, impoverished welfare recipients who are capable of working but don’t, etc…

The difference between the median income level and your impoverish welfare abusers making $0 is $78k (per the 2020 median family income); vs the difference between that same median income and the average of the top 1% is $1,622,000 (1,700k-78k). So how much is your construction project actually "relieving" anything?

In the grand scheme of personal wealth everyone commenting on this thread is in the top 10% of world wide economic status.

Probably, but aren't we also talking about the spectrum of all Americans and their access to shelter? When we have people paying a huge premium to build a home because they can and just down the road we have people who live in effectively third world conditions, I don't think we can look at the dispensable income spending of 1%-ers as an affective economic policy that furthers the American Dream.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I don't think we can look at the dispensable income spending of 1%-ers as an affective economic policy that furthers the American Dream.

I don’t disagree. But will having the government take (insert arbitrary percentage here) of the 1%er’s wealth make a significant difference to the average person struggling to afford housing?

I am looking at it from my experience only. My family and myself have mobilized upwards in a very modest manner on the basis of hard work, mutually beneficial transactions and personal sacrifice.

If I get to level XYZ of income how much of that does anyone else deserve? Who other than my own conscience and choice should determine where my money gets spent?

(I am accepting and taking for granted that common taxes for property, roads and municipal services are acceptable and reasonable.)

 

[Irrelevant]

I don’t disagree. But will having the government take (insert arbitrary percentage here) of the 1%er’s wealth make a significant difference to the average person struggling to afford housing?

Well if they can't afford that 5th home or to pay 3x the going rate in some rural destination community, doesn't that help keep housing prices from sky rocketing? Their version of NR tag disposable income is 3x overpaying for land in pretty locations and driving the market sky high. How many homes do they actually need?

 

[Elkmagnet]

*^%##^ Liberals! Or is it *#^}%Conservatives?

We getin what we voten for