onpoint
Well-known member
Keep thinking and praying (and as Buzz said) and building caskets.........
School/Mass shootings what's the answer?
- Thread starter Lawnboy
- Start date
dcopas78
Well-known member
My wife is a teacher and it troubles me that she and her students could be killed just sitting in the classroom. The problem is, there are a bunch of crazies out there. Crazies that don't give two squirts for their lives, let alone the lives of others. Mental health funding is non-existent. Many of the kids that used to receive counseling or treatment from licensed psychologists in her district now have regular guidance counselors attempting the same. A money saving technique....life saving be damned.
Do guns make it easier? Undoubtedly. The problem is, if you start the ball rolling in the direction of confiscation or banning, where does it stop? We've all saw how quickly politicians jump on an idea and contort it to suite their views rather than their constituents. I don't think that is the answer.
I believe until the country acknowledges the mental and psychological problems, starting with those faced by todays youth, I don't think it gets any better. In the meantime, make the "soft" targets less soft. We sink millions into protecting everything else we care for. Why not the same for our kids? Hire fulltime security if need be. Allow qualified teachers to have access to firearms for protection. My wife is a CCW holder, and I wish she could carry hers to protect herself and her kids. But these are just my thoughts.
Do guns make it easier? Undoubtedly. The problem is, if you start the ball rolling in the direction of confiscation or banning, where does it stop? We've all saw how quickly politicians jump on an idea and contort it to suite their views rather than their constituents. I don't think that is the answer.
I believe until the country acknowledges the mental and psychological problems, starting with those faced by todays youth, I don't think it gets any better. In the meantime, make the "soft" targets less soft. We sink millions into protecting everything else we care for. Why not the same for our kids? Hire fulltime security if need be. Allow qualified teachers to have access to firearms for protection. My wife is a CCW holder, and I wish she could carry hers to protect herself and her kids. But these are just my thoughts.
BucksnDucks
Well-known member
I'm not offended by your thoughts, but I don't suggest you refer to people with differing opinions as "nuts" or "gun nuts". I don't agree with you but I'm far from a gun nut. I've studied school shootings and attended multiple trainings on active shooter response.
I will start by saying it is pretty obvious that banning guns or a certain type of gun simply does not work. These mentally ill shooters generally plan, plot, and scheme their acts. Acquiring the weapon is just another step in the process. Shootings in California, Europe, Australia, and those by people prohibited from owning firearms show it is an easy obstacle in the big picture. Further, the church shooting in Texas was stopped by a legal citizen with an AR.
Solutions? I don't know. Common factors in shooters are mental illness and psychotropic drugs. Our society has changed so much and kids as well as adults don't see consequences.
The only suggestion I have is to never show the picture or mention name of shooter. Don't allow any fame to these dipshits looking to beat the top score. Refer to the shooter as the "murderer" or any insult the media sees fit.
I will start by saying it is pretty obvious that banning guns or a certain type of gun simply does not work. These mentally ill shooters generally plan, plot, and scheme their acts. Acquiring the weapon is just another step in the process. Shootings in California, Europe, Australia, and those by people prohibited from owning firearms show it is an easy obstacle in the big picture. Further, the church shooting in Texas was stopped by a legal citizen with an AR.
Solutions? I don't know. Common factors in shooters are mental illness and psychotropic drugs. Our society has changed so much and kids as well as adults don't see consequences.
The only suggestion I have is to never show the picture or mention name of shooter. Don't allow any fame to these dipshits looking to beat the top score. Refer to the shooter as the "murderer" or any insult the media sees fit.
onpoint
Well-known member
"I'm not offended by your thoughts, but I don't suggest you refer to people with differing opinions as "nuts" or "gun nuts". I don't agree with you but I'm far from a gun nut".
IMO, this illustrates the strange conundrum we as gun owners and hunters find ourselves in this bizarre political climate. I won't pretend to speak for Bart, but I'm guessing he owns at least a few firearms. My safe currently holds 15 firearms, I like firearms, and maybe considered by some a gun nut - no problem with that. But then, as a "gun nut" I have differing perceptions on gun ownership and what guns we as plain old American civilians need (?), and some fellow "gun nuts" pigeonhole me as a liberal or ignorant. Strange predicament we find ourselves in. And, I believe, this relates directly to this topic. I don't expect much agreement from this forum here, but that's fine. Bottom line, this is sad shit. Do completely agree that this is way bigger than the gun............
IMO, this illustrates the strange conundrum we as gun owners and hunters find ourselves in this bizarre political climate. I won't pretend to speak for Bart, but I'm guessing he owns at least a few firearms. My safe currently holds 15 firearms, I like firearms, and maybe considered by some a gun nut - no problem with that. But then, as a "gun nut" I have differing perceptions on gun ownership and what guns we as plain old American civilians need (?), and some fellow "gun nuts" pigeonhole me as a liberal or ignorant. Strange predicament we find ourselves in. And, I believe, this relates directly to this topic. I don't expect much agreement from this forum here, but that's fine. Bottom line, this is sad shit. Do completely agree that this is way bigger than the gun............
Husker hunter
Active member
The thought of my guns taken away makes me sick but not as sick as these school shootings. I personally believe it's a society that's lost touch with god! As far as gun control, I could go for something like a special permit to buy semi auto rifles & pistols that requires a mental evaluation to receive the permit. %99.9 of gun owners are normal good people but that %.01 can ruin our image in a hurry
VAspeedgoat
Well-known member
This was my wife's highschool. Had a close friend who was a security guard that was killed. Some of her friends know families that haven't found their kids yet at almost 10pm. I don't know any answers but this one hits home. The school has large court yards with stairs that lead right down to them. Everybody knee this scumbag and figured he would lash out like this at some point. He wassupposed to be receiving psychiatric help but quit. Also apparently posts things related to Islam. Posts apparently mocked Islam.
God help us, we apparently can't help ourselves.
God help us, we apparently can't help ourselves.
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Lawnboy
Well-known member
Interesting discussion. I think as far as "gun nuts" goes. I envision someone who'll never admit that any weapon is just impractical for the average citizen to be in possession of. Onpoint is right I have a pile of guns. I can see a cartoon drawing in my head of some frantic looking guy trying to grasp every gun available to mankind while they are spilling out of his arms saying "it's my right". I understand it's your right and my right I just don't see the necessity or ease of availability of some of these weapons. I also see the slippery slope that is gun control. So I just don't know what to think.
I agree the underlying problem is failure at a functioning home life. The video games certainly desensitize people to the actual reality of taking a life when on the game is seems so easy without any consequence. Thanks again for ALL your thoughts gents.
BTW I'm a "muley buck nut" so don't get too bent about my comment on nuts.
I agree the underlying problem is failure at a functioning home life. The video games certainly desensitize people to the actual reality of taking a life when on the game is seems so easy without any consequence. Thanks again for ALL your thoughts gents.
BTW I'm a "muley buck nut" so don't get too bent about my comment on nuts.
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7mm08mo
Well-known member
I usually don't bare my soul so to speak in posts, but here it goes. I think a lot of Americans as a whole have lost their fear and respect of God. Without that it is impossible to respect one another and see the value in human life. I also believe that a lot of video games normalize the taking of another living souls life. I have always said if I had to defend my family I would not hesitate, but thankfully I have never been put in that situation, but when it comes down to it I don't know about ending another souls life. There is a great lack of respect for authority and one another in a lot of places. I am deeply saddened by today's events and pray for those affected,all three of my children are in school so it is a concern. I will say at our school there are two or three teachers that are permitted to conceal and carry they hav the training and continue their training yearly. Only the administration knows which ones they are and, the students do not know at all. I also live in a very rural area, our school is 330 k-12. I do not know all the answers or pretend to but I do know it cannot hurt to pray for our nation and its leaders and people. I also think discipline and accountability learned at a young age does not hurt anything. I also think good moral character is taught at a young age and should start at home but a lot of people are disenfranchised with that notion and seem to be enablers to make up for shortcomings they feel they have caused in their kids of friends or siblings lives.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I am pretty typically conservative, a gun owner many times over and an advocate for the second amendment, but all rights come with boundaries, limitations and responsibilities. I support laws that would provide for a meaningful and timely background check for every gun sale, no private sale exception, I support laws that would limit rifle and shotgun magazines to 5 or 6 rounds and handguns to 14 or 15. I would place higher scrutiny around the sale of ar-style weapons and rifle cartridge chambered handguns.
I don’t kid myself that this would solve all the evil in the world, but I am shocked at how these tactical-style guns are being treated like real life video games. More often than not I leave the gun range sickened by the idiots and their behavior while playing with their new ”toys”.
If sportsman do not stand up and support reasonable boundaries we will have Australian style laws forced upon us within 15 years without a doubt.
I don’t kid myself that this would solve all the evil in the world, but I am shocked at how these tactical-style guns are being treated like real life video games. More often than not I leave the gun range sickened by the idiots and their behavior while playing with their new ”toys”.
If sportsman do not stand up and support reasonable boundaries we will have Australian style laws forced upon us within 15 years without a doubt.
onpoint
Well-known member
"........ if those of us that like guns don't figure it out (and pretty soon), those that don't like them will and we probably won't like what they come up with".
"..........If sportsman do not stand up and support reasonable boundaries ..........".
Both very practical and pragmatic statements concerning this tragic stuff. As a sportsman, it would be a good thing to be part of the solution.
"..........If sportsman do not stand up and support reasonable boundaries ..........".
Both very practical and pragmatic statements concerning this tragic stuff. As a sportsman, it would be a good thing to be part of the solution.
There is no answer. Sorry but there will never be an answer. No gun laws, no amount of mental health, nothing will prevent the sickest individuals from doing this... Sorry but it does not matter the weapon type... No laws will prevent it. It is the down side of freedom. With freedom comes risk and this is sadly the risk we take to be free... We can hope to curve the issue, but sadly we will never stop it. Be it airplanes crashing into buildings, rental trucks and fertilizer, or anything else... Anyone who thinks we can magically stop such evil is kidding themselves...
I am not willing to give an inch... No magazine bans, no semi automatic limits, nothing. On the flip side it is sickening to think we limit and restrict educators ability to protect themselves and their students. It is past time to allow those working in education to conceal carry.
I am not willing to give an inch... No magazine bans, no semi automatic limits, nothing. On the flip side it is sickening to think we limit and restrict educators ability to protect themselves and their students. It is past time to allow those working in education to conceal carry.
LuketheDog
Well-known member
There is no amount of gun legislation that will stop these killings. If none of these deranged murderers had access to a firearm they would still find a way to kill and maim. It happens all the time in countries with extremely strict gun laws, the murderers simply build a bomb, or arm themselves with kitchen cutlery, or jump in a vehicle and mow down a crowd. The bigger issue is mental health and getting people to speak up and ACT when they see someone with issues. Both this monster in Florida and the guy who killed the deputy here in Colorado on New Years Eve had prior issues and red flags were up all over the place, but nobody. stepped. up. and lives were wasted.
onpoint
Well-known member
I grew up in the 70's. We weren't exactly angels - lotta' potheads, drinking, fighting, kids from divorced families, lotta' less than "godliness" behavior. I grew up bringing guns to school in the truck, ready to go out shooting or hunting at just about anytime.
What didn't exist then was the ability for anyone to pack around an AR - they just weren't around. Hi Cap handguns weren't really all the rage yet either.
Never heard much of mass shootings or their like back then. Just sayin' - so the saying goes. Oh, I'm sure someone will produce a news clipping.....
Just a perception of someone who grew up before a lot of this bullshit that many folks younger than me find somehow to be somewhat normal. And I ain't that old.
Then again bullying happened in person - not on facebook and available to everyone's smart phone "feed"....
What didn't exist then was the ability for anyone to pack around an AR - they just weren't around. Hi Cap handguns weren't really all the rage yet either.
Never heard much of mass shootings or their like back then. Just sayin' - so the saying goes. Oh, I'm sure someone will produce a news clipping.....
Just a perception of someone who grew up before a lot of this bullshit that many folks younger than me find somehow to be somewhat normal. And I ain't that old.
Then again bullying happened in person - not on facebook and available to everyone's smart phone "feed"....
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Mental health care, and quite frankly civil commitments, and reasonable boundaries on the 2nd amendment are all small steps forward, no one of them alone will "solve" the problem, and together they will only lessen the problem. I agree killers will kill, but if they kill 5 with a car instead of 17 with an AR - those 12 lives are worth something. A functioning democracy requires folks to give an inch now and then. If sportsman won't give an inch and PETA won't give an inch and the Brady group won't given an inch - well then, demographics will carry the day and the long term numbers aren't with the sportsman.
OriginalOscar
Active member
Agreed. Culture without foundation based on god lacking morals and love for others. Lack of family ties including extended family. Social media connects and isolates (as I type this going hmm).
The one common is the shooters are male. Maybe we as men need to expand our efforts with very young men through scouts, schools, sports to teach them how men are able to be strong, reserved and loving to others. If I didn't have the men in my life who taught, kicked my ass, and showed me love; I can't honestly say how I'd have turned out.
We've also got to get kids back into church. I appreciate someone can be a good person without organized religion but they miss the community of organized religion.
In fact lots of things we used to do but were deemed bad as our culture became enlightened (sarcasm) need to be rethought. Orphanages for kids without functioning homes, asylums for people who present harm to themselves or others, mandatory draft into military.
Faith, family, freedom, future hope were the foundation America was built upon and everyone assimilated together as one nation.
God bless those who were lost and their loved ones.
LuketheDog
Well-known member
When's the last time a 'sportsman' shot up a school? I don't think 'sportsmen' should take it on the chin because some lunatic got their hands on a semi-automatic firearm...
The problem is, if given an inch the sportsmen and hunters will take an inch, give an inch to the other side and they'll take a foot and won't be happy until they have a mile. I just recently read an article discussion the issue of knife assaults in the UK, where incidentally the gun laws are extremely strict, and the writer actually suggested getting rid of pointy knives was the answer! And this is not even a new or 'extreme' argument over there!
Schaaf
Well-known member
I tend to believe it’s a cultural/mental health problem. With that said, every time there’s a mass shooting and you send thoughts and prayers and claim it’s a mental health problem then so be it, but you can’t cut the funding and cripple the agencies working on mental health and expect people to not call your bluff. The continued inaction on all fronts to even address the issue will lead to consequences I don’t think any of us here would want.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
We need to take a serious look at the relationship between SSRI drugs and mass shootings!
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