School/Mass shootings what's the answer?

[Tradewind]

The Florida school did have an armed guard. I also remember there was one at a nightclub or something.

The number of weapons out there is an issue that would have to be overcome, but it is largely one that was self inflicted as people weee buying them thinking they would be banned.

I have not watched any of the coverage. It would be interesting to know where the armed guard was when it started and what his/her response was

 

[RobG]

I have not watched any of the coverage. It would be interesting to know where the armed guard was when it started and what his/her response was

Coverage is just rumors the first week. Honeybadger might be correct that he wasn’t on site.

 

[BuzzH]

As a nation we can muster 20 some people to guard every gate at every major airport. We have thousands of FBI agents who apparently cant figure out how to respond to school shooting threats. Take some of those people and put them in schools, or cut some of those people and use the money to put local officers in schools. There is really no excuse anymore.

Here's the reality, a lot of Americans think school teachers are over-paid. Nobody likes to pay a nickel in taxes. Many teachers spend money out of their own pockets so their students have basic school supplies.

I've seen people on this board howl, whine, moan and groan about how teachers are cutting a fat hog in the ass because they get summers off and still get paid for 12 months.

Everyone talks a good line of BS about how important an education is, everybody agrees. Trouble is, nobody wants to pay anything for it. They want educators, people that teach their kids, to make the same salary as a Wal-Mart greeter.

Now, ask yourself how keen these types are going to be, when it comes time to raise their taxes a buck, to fund a few armed security guards for their schools. I reckon they will be expecting those security guards to work for free, just like they expect teachers to do.

I can tell you that I'm in the minority of tax payers who believes that we should be trying to attract the best teachers by increasing the pay to a level that will attract the best. I don't care if my taxes increase to do it, education is an investment into the future. I don't want to live in a Country with a bunch of illiterate kids running around, turning into illiterate adults. All because their parents wanted to save a nickel on their tax bill, and have them being taught by teachers that they think should be making the same money as a burger flipper.

I think armed security guards are a good idea, but you better hope that you can cover their wages, insurance, and retirement with a bake sale...because the average tax payer isn't going to want to pay for it.

 

[onpoint]

Hey, we all just got $30 more a paycheck now you're suggesting we give that up?? When you pry it from my cold dead hands.....
Thought I better add sarcasm font for the sarcastically challenged.....

 

[JLS]

From an article on why the officer was NOT present during the shooting'

“I have been told by a couple of sources that the SRO was either called off campus responding to something happening or it could have been his day off,” she said. “They are stretched very thin.”

As a nation we can muster 20 some people to guard every gate at every major airport. We have thousands of FBI agents who apparently cant figure out how to respond to school shooting threats. Take some of those people and put them in schools, or cut some of those people and use the money to put local officers in schools. There is really no excuse anymore.

Responding to a school shooting threat is not necessarily in the FBIs wheelhouse. You know, jurisdictional issues? I know it makes for good memes to blame them, but maybe more questions should be asked as to what the local sheriff and/or municipal police did.

 

[Lawnboy]

I''m impressed that this topic has made it over 300+ posts and there is still civility to the discussion. Thanks to each one of you who have posted and kept this discussion worthy.

Do I get a prize? . What's the record for "political type" threads. I think it's because I asked that they play nicely from the get go. There's been some great discussion I feel.

 

[Big Fin]

Here's the reality, a lot of Americans think school teachers are over-paid. Nobody likes to pay a nickel in taxes. Many teachers spend money out of their own pockets so their students have basic school supplies.

I've seen people on this board howl, whine, moan and groan about how teachers are cutting a fat hog in the ass because they get summers off and still get paid for 12 months.

Everyone talks a good line of BS about how important an education is, everybody agrees. Trouble is, nobody wants to pay anything for it. They want educators, people that teach their kids, to make the same salary as a Wal-Mart greeter.

Now, ask yourself how keen these types are going to be, when it comes time to raise their taxes a buck, to fund a few armed security guards for their schools. I reckon they will be expecting those security guards to work for free, just like they expect teachers to do.

I can tell you that I'm in the minority of tax payers who believes that we should be trying to attract the best teachers by increasing the pay to a level that will attract the best. I don't care if my taxes increase to do it, education is an investment into the future. I don't want to live in a Country with a bunch of illiterate kids running around, turning into illiterate adults. All because their parents wanted to save a nickel on their tax bill, and have them being taught by teachers that they think should be making the same money as a burger flipper.

I think armed security guards are a good idea, but you better hope that you can cover their wages, insurance, and retirement with a bake sale...because the average tax payer isn't going to want to pay for it.

I had typed something similar about the cost of these security solutions, a cost I am willing to contribute toward, then deleted my rambles, thinking the struggles of school funding might have been endemic to my experiences. And that my experience with anti-school funding critics was an anomaly. Reading this, maybe not.

 

[onpoint]

Do I get a prize? . What's the record for "political type" threads. I think it's because I asked that they play nicely from the get go. There's been some great discussion I feel.

No prize, here. Maybe more because the issue is a terrible reality that, regardless of one's political leanings, is a gut punch to most everyone??....... Just a thought....

 

[BrentD]

thinking the struggles of school funding might have been endemic to my experiences. And that my experience with anti-school funding critics was an anomaly. Reading this, maybe not.

Most definitely NOT.

You would not believe what teachers, at all levels, are paid in this state. It's just about criminal, but the teachers do it because they love the job, even though everyone and their brother tells them how they should do their job and what failures they are (its a whole bunch like being a state game biologist).

 

[Power54]

Here's the reality, a lot of Americans think school teachers are over-paid. Nobody likes to pay a nickel in taxes. Many teachers spend money out of their own pockets so their students have basic school supplies.

I've seen people on this board howl, whine, moan and groan about how teachers are cutting a fat hog in the ass because they get summers off and still get paid for 12 months.

Everyone talks a good line of BS about how important an education is, everybody agrees. Trouble is, nobody wants to pay anything for it. They want educators, people that teach their kids, to make the same salary as a Wal-Mart greeter.

Now, ask yourself how keen these types are going to be, when it comes time to raise their taxes a buck, to fund a few armed security guards for their schools. I reckon they will be expecting those security guards to work for free, just like they expect teachers to do.

I can tell you that I'm in the minority of tax payers who believes that we should be trying to attract the best teachers by increasing the pay to a level that will attract the best. I don't care if my taxes increase to do it, education is an investment into the future. I don't want to live in a Country with a bunch of illiterate kids running around, turning into illiterate adults. All because their parents wanted to save a nickel on their tax bill, and have them being taught by teachers that they think should be making the same money as a burger flipper.

I think armed security guards are a good idea, but you better hope that you can cover their wages, insurance, and retirement with a bake sale...because the average tax payer isn't going to want to pay for it.

As the husband of an overpaid school teacher, I couldn't agree more.

One of the Columbine shooters exchanged shots with a school resource officer within 5 minutes of the first shot ringing out. The officer was outgunned and didn't make a lick of difference. I realize most officers now have quick access to better weapons and tactics for responding to school shootings have changed but the "good guy with a gun" doesn't always get there quick enough, even if he/she is close by.

 

[BuzzH]

I had typed something similar about the cost of these security solutions, a cost I am willing to contribute toward, then deleted my rambles, thinking the struggles of school funding might have been endemic to my experiences. And that my experience with anti-school funding critics was an anomaly. Reading this, maybe not.

I think you and I are in the very small minority of people who are willing to contribute our share to education, teacher salaries, mental illness, and security guards. I would rather they keep my token tax cut and fund things like that.

The ironical part of the whole thing, I have no kids and should be howling with the majority that want to save $5 on their tax bill by cutting funding to all those things. Having a conscience sucks...in particular, when its obvious a vast majority don't.

 

[BrentD]

I think you and I are in the very small minority of people who are willing to contribute our share to education, teacher salaries, mental illness, and security guards. I would rather they keep my token tax cut and fund things like that.

The ironical part of the whole thing, I have no kids and should be howling with the majority that want to save $5 on their tax bill by cutting funding to all those things. Having a conscience sucks...in particular, when its obvious a vast majority don't.

You guys aren't alone. I don't have any kids either. but I do get to teach those kids that come up through the primary and secondary schools at their next stop. I know what they don't know and didn't learn.

 

[Doublecluck]

Here's the reality, a lot of Americans think school teachers are over-paid. Nobody likes to pay a nickel in taxes. Many teachers spend money out of their own pockets so their students have basic school supplies.

I've seen people on this board howl, whine, moan and groan about how teachers are cutting a fat hog in the ass because they get summers off and still get paid for 12 months.

Everyone talks a good line of BS about how important an education is, everybody agrees. Trouble is, nobody wants to pay anything for it. They want educators, people that teach their kids, to make the same salary as a Wal-Mart greeter.

Now, ask yourself how keen these types are going to be, when it comes time to raise their taxes a buck, to fund a few armed security guards for their schools. I reckon they will be expecting those security guards to work for free, just like they expect teachers to do.

I can tell you that I'm in the minority of tax payers who believes that we should be trying to attract the best teachers by increasing the pay to a level that will attract the best. I don't care if my taxes increase to do it, education is an investment into the future. I don't want to live in a Country with a bunch of illiterate kids running around, turning into illiterate adults. All because their parents wanted to save a nickel on their tax bill, and have them being taught by teachers that they think should be making the same money as a burger flipper.

I think armed security guards are a good idea, but you better hope that you can cover their wages, insurance, and retirement with a bake sale...because the average tax payer isn't going to want to pay for it.

You make some good points here buzz, I think as a nation we should look at privatizing schools with voucher system. If the government can’t figure out how to keep our children safe I am pretty sure the private sector could. As parents we shouldn’t have to send them if they can’t guarantee the safety.Kids would Probably get a better education as well. I found this on the topic.

https://info.richmondalarm.com/news/are-private-schools-statistically-safer-than-public-schools


2006-2011 42 pennies for every dollar I made plus 9.75% for every non food purchase I made, every year same thing, if we don’t raise the tax, the kids won’t have pencils, the police and fire might not come.. yada yada. So when is it enough? Raising taxes don’t mean better teachers or safer kids, my kids are safer in Montana and they are getting a far better education. Where I grew up there was local police at the school full time, kids getting stabbed,fights,drugs, and every once in a while a shooting. The local police just New they had to have officers present there to keep it safe as possible.

 

[Lawnboy]

No prize, here. Maybe more because the issue is a terrible reality that, regardless of one's political leanings, is a gut punch to most everyone??....... Just a thought....

The prize comment was a joke. I started the thread because I was passionate about the situation. I still have my opinions and they just aren't in line with what most gun owners think. I have appreciated all the comments made. I think some positive ideas have come forth. I'm more or less feeling that it might be a losing battle as Buzz has mentioned. The more that this story unfolds makes me think this one is one that could of been prevented. Plenty of people came forth with warnings. Sad deal.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

The FBI was who received the tips, they did not even pass the information on to the locals, which they are infamous for. The budget of the FBI last year was 8.7 billion. Cut it by a few billion and start putting cops at schools. Feds pass out grants like candy for all kinds of nonsense. Pass out grants for officers in schools, districts all over the nation would do it if they had the money.

 

[rtraverdavis]

Here's the reality, a lot of Americans think school teachers are over-paid. Nobody likes to pay a nickel in taxes. Many teachers spend money out of their own pockets so their students have basic school supplies.

I've seen people on this board howl, whine, moan and groan about how teachers are cutting a fat hog in the ass because they get summers off and still get paid for 12 months.

Everyone talks a good line of BS about how important an education is, everybody agrees. Trouble is, nobody wants to pay anything for it. They want educators, people that teach their kids, to make the same salary as a Wal-Mart greeter.

Now, ask yourself how keen these types are going to be, when it comes time to raise their taxes a buck, to fund a few armed security guards for their schools. I reckon they will be expecting those security guards to work for free, just like they expect teachers to do.

I can tell you that I'm in the minority of tax payers who believes that we should be trying to attract the best teachers by increasing the pay to a level that will attract the best. I don't care if my taxes increase to do it, education is an investment into the future. I don't want to live in a Country with a bunch of illiterate kids running around, turning into illiterate adults. All because their parents wanted to save a nickel on their tax bill, and have them being taught by teachers that they think should be making the same money as a burger flipper.

I think armed security guards are a good idea, but you better hope that you can cover their wages, insurance, and retirement with a bake sale...because the average tax payer isn't going to want to pay for it.

Thank you.

 

[rtraverdavis]

You make some good points here buzz, I think as a nation we should look at privatizing schools with voucher system. If the government can’t figure out how to keep our children safe I am pretty sure the private sector could. As parents we shouldn’t have to send them if they can’t guarantee the safety.Kids would Probably get a better education as well. I found this on the topic.

https://info.richmondalarm.com/news/are-private-schools-statistically-safer-than-public-schools

Private schools are not voucher schools. You have to pay out of your own pocket (or through grants/scholarships) to send your kid to a private school. Voucher systems are for charter schools, which are paid for with tax money just like public schools, except without the same accountability and standards as traditional public schools. The voucher system is sort of like trying to draw a tag—the best units are hardest to draw. Some charter schools are great, but are hard to get into, which leaves the rest of the charter schools, which vary from mediocre to downright awful. With charter schools, there are winners and losers, and like with everything else, poor kids usually end up in the losers. We should invest in quality, community driven public schools to meet the needs of ALL our kids, not just whoever wins the voucher lottery.

 

[onpoint]

The prize comment was a joke. I started the thread because I was passionate about the situation. I still have my opinions and they just aren't in line with what most gun owners think. I have appreciated all the comments made. I think some positive ideas have come forth. I'm more or less feeling that it might be a losing battle as Buzz has mentioned. The more that this story unfolds makes me think this one is one that could of been prevented. Plenty of people came forth with warnings. Sad deal.

Yeah, I'm sure my opinions aren't in line with a large number of fellow gun owners on this one also. I have no use for some of the weapons that many like and would not blink if they were to go away. But they are legal and widely distributed. So be it. As hunters (excluding bowhunters) - who need firearms to be what we are - I guess we'll all just see how this plays out. Somebody's eventually gonna' be on the losing end of this for sure.
As humans, as you said, it's a sad deal......
Once again, glad you brought it up.

 

[RobG]

The FBI was who received the tips, they did not even pass the information on to the locals, which they are infamous for. The budget of the FBI last year was 8.7 billion. Cut it by a few billion and start putting cops at schools. Feds pass out grants like candy for all kinds of nonsense. Pass out grants for officers in schools, districts all over the nation would do it if they had the money.

Sorta dumb but serious question, what could the FBI or local enforcement do? Take his guns away without due process?

 

[Doublecluck]

Private schools are not voucher schools. You have to pay out of your own pocket (or through grants/scholarships) to send your kid to a private school. Voucher systems are for charter schools, which are paid for with tax money just like public schools, except without the same accountability and standards as traditional public schools. The voucher system is sort of like trying to draw a tag—the best units are hardest to draw. Some charter schools are great, but are hard to get into, which leaves the rest of the charter schools, which vary from mediocre to downright awful. With charter schools, there are winners and losers, and like with everything else, poor kids usually end up in the losers. We should invest in quality, community driven public schools to meet the needs of ALL our kids, not just whoever wins the voucher lottery.

Yea I realize that, but what I am saying is that if a public school can’t keep my children safe and a private school can, that I should as a parent have the choice to have the tax monies for my child’s education go to the private school.