Rocky Mountain Front, the latest info

[Yukon Hunter]

Just so you know...
The pipeline has been pretty much awarded to the MacKenzie Valley through the NorthWest Territories, bypassing the Yukon, despite local politicos attempts to have it routed along the Alaska Highway. There are two main stumbling blocks now- first, the price of Natural gas- it's not yet high enough to make it worthwhile to build the pipeline. Second, there is a debate going on over the rights in the Beaufort...for some reason, your current administration has determined that, once the border between Canada and Alaska hits the Beaufort, it suddenly veers 45 degrees to the East. No reason has been given for this stance, but the American government has started trying to sell rights in the area.
Not bashing anyone, just telling it like it is...

 

[BHR]

Buzz,

You've had plenty of time to weigh in on the saddam news, and the fact that haven't yet leads me to believe that this is news that you do not want to hear. If so then it is clear to me that your bias towards Bush is so strong, that you would prefer to see our country fail then our President succeed. If this is the case, then I'm sorry to have you as a fellow American. Matter of fact, I have yet to see much comment other than W. H. from the anti-Bush crowd as well. If you are one of those who is disapointed in seeing saddam captured, want to dismiss the importance of it, or could care less that he is, then your true colors are showing today.

Paul

 

[Yukon Hunter]

Interesting. Someone doesn't immediately chime in singing the praises of Bush, and he's somehow un-American.
Good for the troops over there, and their intel specialists. While I think their commander-in-chief is a doofus, the fighting men and women, as always, do their duty. Whether the U.S. was right or wrong to invade is hardly their call- like good soldiers everywhere, they just follow orders, and do an awesome job.
Congratulations to the 4th Infantry Division & Spec Ops guys. Too bad our PM didn't have the heart to send more of ours over there.
Now, next step- bin Laden.

 

[BuzzH]

Paul, great news that he's caught.

I also agree that it will more than likely save American lives now that he's in custody.

Good job to the American troops.

Now, if only he can round up the more dangerous guy...bin laden.

By the way, GW spooning gravy on mashed potatoes is not nearly as impressive as the guys that dug shithead out of his hideout...that impresses me.

 

[BHR]

Yuke,

Phuck off! No one has to praise Bush for this, but I would certainly think they would weigh in with an opinion. And then there's one gutless worm that weighed in with a little lip service then proceded to delete some of his posts. This board is infested with a bunch of chicken shit commies. I don't know why I waste my time here.

Paul

 

[Yukon Hunter]

I was just kinda wondering why you waste anyone's time here...
And I see that those that don't share you POV are commies. Nice talk. Would that make you a Nazi?

 

[BHR]

Yep Buzz,

Your post says it all. Give all the credit to the troops for catching saddam, and all the blame to Bush for not capturing Osama. You will find fault in anything the man does. Negative people like you do very little to make the world better, and everything to make it more confrontational. No wonder why so few things ever get accomplished.

Paul

 

[BuzzH]

Yeah Paul, my post does say it all.

Sorry if I'm not tripping over myself patting GW on the back while he sits on his ass at his ranch in Texas. Meanwhile over in some hellish location young Americans take care of his dirty work for him. Its great that he flew in for the Thanksgiving deal, but again, sorry if I show a bit more enthusiasm for the guys doing the real work.

I'll give the credit where I believe its due, and thats with the Americans on the ground taking care of business.

Its a hell of a thing to order war, and GW acts pretty non-chalant and smug about it if you ask me. The smirk hasnt left his face the whole time he's been in office.

 

[BHR]

Buzz boy,

If it was left up to you, saddam would still be in power. If I didn't call you on it earlier there would still be no comment from you. Pretty much says it all. Ties to osama and wmd's coming soon. Stay tuned!

Paul

 

[Yukon Hunter]

Paul-
I'm thinking you'd be far better off just sticking with topics you may know something about- clearly, politics isn't your forte.
How 'bout we get back to the original intent of this post- as a FNAWS guy, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on what kind of effect this drilling might have on Sheep in that area. I'm sort of under the impression that, without actually having the guts to come right out and say so, you're all for the drilling. A simple yes or no will do nicely.

 

[BuzzH]

Paul, maybe simple replies are needed for you to grasp the meaning of my posts...so just for you.

When the guys/gals I work with complete production goals, I dont call Dale Bosworth, (Chief of the Forest Service), and tell him he did a good job. I'm more inclined to tell the people who did the work they did a good job.

Get it?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-15-2003 08:00: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>

 

[BHR]

No yuke,

I rather see the price of natural gas go up so that people conserve more, and then we would not have to imediatly drill on the front. Higher gas prices would also make the pipeline more feasable getting that project started more quickly, hopefully saving the Front from ever being drilled. I like the idea of drilling in your backyard much more than drilling in mine. And it will help to restore all those jobs your region lost when the value of the American dollar fell. Maybe then, even a loser like you might be able to get a real job. It would require that you would actually have to work then, instead of spending your day choking your chicken.

yuke, got to hand it to you. After yesturday, I would have figure you to crawl under a rock, but I see your balls are bigger than your brains. Patience my far north commrade, everyone in time will get to see how wrong you really are.

Paul

 

[dgibson]

Bin Laden is already dead. They just haven't found his body yet.

Moooooving back to topic...1_p, ask your Dad about what happened in this area when talk about corn-based fuels was all the rage. More than one farmer...well, bet the farm on the hype but it never materialized. Why, I don't really know...I was too young to dig deeper into anything but my nose.

Some random thoughts regarding current efforts in fuel economy:

1) There's a single "alternative fuel" station that I know of in the area. Do you think people will buy "alternative fuel" cars when they can't fill them up, or have to drive 50 miles to do so?

2) Some manufacturers are offering "multiple fuel" vehicles, but, again, there's no place to fill them up, and they cost significantly more than their gasoline-only counterparts. With vehicle prices being what they are, who's going to spend that extra money?

3) Manufacturers are starting to roll out their "hybrid" vehicles, which use one of a few different methods of employing electricity to reduce fuel consumption. They, too, are expensive, are typically underpowered and of the "econocar" form, and aren't good for much of anything other than the daily commute on a 50 MPH freeway. How many people outside of the major cities are ever going to buy these things, especially when America has always been in a love affair with power and speed?

The point is that there are a lot of questions & problems to be worked out...technology is only the beginning. If I could create an "alternative car" tomorrow it'd be great, but I wouldn't sell enough to make a difference unless it was cheap, normal-sized, and as powerful as the gasoline-powered car sitting next to it.

 

[BHR]

Oh I get it Buzz,

Bush made the tough call to get rid of saddam when no one else had the balls to do it, and took the heat for it when things weren't going smoothly. He deserves a little credit for his leadership. The majority of Americans can see this, why can't you? Do you hate America that much?

Like I said before, if it were left up to your leadership, saddam would still be in power. True?

So Buzz, what do you think about raising natural gas prices to force conservation? What about the rest of you following this. Any comment?

Paul

 

[BuzzH]

I agree Paul, raise the natural gas prices. Plus, like you said, it would speed up the AK deal we discussed.

As to saddam, personally, I never would have put the guy in power...we allowed that remember? I sure dont remember many Americans bitching about him when we were all buddy-buddy.

Why is it we waited 20ish years to get all worked up about him gassing the kurds? When he was still our friend, we kind of looked the other way, remember? Also, remember who was in office 20 years ago? In my opinion, that was a good reason to oust the bastard then, 20 years ago...who cares about WMD, terrorist ties, etc. If the U.S. was really concerned about the welfare of the people of Iraq, why didnt we do something THEN, rather than wait?

Also fair to note is the apple doesnt fall far from the tree...maybe ol' Pops should have polished off saddam when he had the absolute perfect chance.

That was another major F.U. by ol' Pops...maybe Jr. feels obligated to clean up after him, and try to save the family name.

Oh, I sure aint going to thank ol' Pops for doing a half-assed job the first time. Jr. should be chewing his Dads ass for that one.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-15-2003 09:01: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>

 

[BHR]

Buzz,

Hindsight is 20/20, and I like to know what kind of glasses you wear that allows you to see only what you want to see.

If Pops capped saddam when he had chance, you and your kind would be calling him a cold blooded killer. He shows compasion and you say he screwed up. Nobody can win with you Buzz, and that's why nobody listens to you.

Paul

 

[Yukon Hunter]

Paul-
Yeah, you sure beat me up on the economy question. I suppose some might see it otherwise, however- largely because you never brought up a single point in your favour, and basically ran off like a whipped pup with your tail between your legs.
Here's a couple more points for you to ponder-
1)- this is big country. The Yukon is about 25% larger than Montana. The drilling will be in Alaska, which is almost four times the size of Montana- hardly my back yard.
2)- when you say things like "Maybe then, even a loser like you might be able to get a real job. It would require that you would actually have to work then, instead of spending your day choking your chicken", it makes you look like a complete buffoon. An occasional demonstration of intelligence from you in a debate would be nice. It's fine to insult someone, as long as you bring up salient points, as well.
3)- In one post, you criticize the environmentalists for not wanting NG drilled from their own back yards. You then turn around and tell me it's okay, as long as it's in my back yard, not yours.
I've never been able to figure out why someone with such a limited intellectual grasp of things, such as yourself, wants to put up their hand and announce their stupidity to the world. It's okay, though- I enjoy having someone like you around to abuse.

 

[BuzzH]

Come on Paul, try to debate the tough issues.

So, you dont think we should have dealt with dippy, 20 years ago when the Iraqi's were being slaughtered by the 10's of thousands?

Wheres the compassion for your fellow Man? Where were Sr. and RR when all this was happening? Sitting on their collective asses letting it happen. It wasnt like the whole world didnt know it was going on.

 

[Yukon Hunter]

Buzz-
I must disagree. RR wasn't sitting on his ass- he was giving Saddam money by the truckload...

 

[Finalshot]

Back again.

There are few issues that need some of my comments. Paul, you were wrong to say we can’t mandate fuel mileage. It's already a federal law. The EPA is charged, by congress to force the auto in dusty to abide by fuel economy standards. They are called cafe standards and their based on auto fleets. That's why the auto industry still produces the small compact cheep cars. They balance the "fleet" when combined with the SUVs to get below or at the standard. As for telling the people what cars they can and cannot drive by changing the standards your wrong again. There is nothing in the constitution that protects your right to drive a gas-hog. Don’t even try arguing the constitution with me unless you want to get tied in a knot.

As for how do we fund this whole conservation effort and save places like the Front. Easy, it's called an income transfer or subsidy. If the people want to protect the Front, they should pay. If new technology and conservation were given the same funding as the oil and gas industry we could insulate our homes, get new more advanced forms of energy, etc. The future of energy is clear to me. It's in local, small-scale production at the home or community level. With current technology we could collect enough energy to run our houses off the grid. With some subsidies, we could afford to do it, and, as more and more units are sold, they will become more affordable. If we shift the subsidies away from oil and gas to renewables the whole oil and gas debate will become moot in a few generations.

So, let the people pay for protecting the Front. Increasing the price of gas may help, but there are a lot of poor people in Montana that would have to move to town if gas were $4. That brings up another subsidy issue. Most of the gas is used by people who live beyond their ability to pay. That means the taxpayer is subsidizing them.

That's enough for now, see you all later!

Finalshot