MT Shoulder Season Public Comment

[Straight Arrow]

Lawnboy, I don't think anyone's intent was to "get in Randy's face about It." It was more a difference in perspective regarding the apparent position of RMEF regarding the shoulder seasons, as expressed in the FWP Commission meeting and on Facebook. There was no "unnecessary roughness" foul IMO, so please accept the red flag and further review the infraction and penalty you imposed. Everyone here highly respects, admires and thanks the Big Fin for coaching (hosting) this game (forum) and for not being one to sit on the bench during any set of downs (constructive discussion) in this important game of hunting issues. Unfortunately, he has to be the coach and referee at times.

As a member of RMEF almost since its inception, I trust in the organization's corporate wisdom and personally do not want RMEF's position to be a result of merely a member poll of all of us "armchair wildlife managers". There are a lot of very smart folks employed by RMEF and on the Board, who can sort this issue out. However, I feel it is incumbent on the organization to demonstrate thorough analysis and to clearly and widely communicate the position and the rationale for that position, whether it be in favor of or opposing the shoulder seasons proposal or any part or facet of the proposal.

 

[RobG]

From looking on the website there are 23 Board of Directors and 2 officers. Randy is only 1. I highly doubt he is end all of decisions nor is this a Cuban dictatorship. I can understand your frustrations based on apparent testimony given but taking it out on one person on this forum seems silly. I realize he is very active on here and tries to comment when he can so it makes sense to try this avenue first. Knowing Randy for many years he'll look into the issue and what was said and voice his opinion when he can. It may not be necessarily what everyone on here wants nor the other board members of RMEF for that matter.
I am a member and did also read what was said and do not agree with there stance currently based on testimony and the Facebook comment. I do agree also that if you're going to have someone responding on Facebook it better be in line with what the stance of the organization is or you're just asking for trouble. I'm sure not going to march down the street and get in Randy's face about it.

Maybe you letters and rants are best served by pounding the Headquarters with your thoughts rather than one messenger that has a life and business outside of this assignment. It's obvious that he wasn't able to hear all of it and more than likely is shooting a little in the dark on what RMEF said or is thinking. Just my observation.:W: Don't make me throw a penalty flag for dog pilling. Ten yard penalty automatic first down.

If you are referring to me I'm not taking anything out on Randy and agree we should not. I just thought he could offer or obtain some insight into RMEF's comments, but it is clear we aren't communicating and both getting frustrated. I'm puzzled why I'm not getting my thoughts through, but I'm also puzzled by the kickback I got when I gave RMEF the benefit of the doubt and suggested we wait until we understand their point of view before submitting comments. So no matter if I defend RMEF or expect them to explain their words people go off on me. I guess that is why I'm not in HR.

I hold Randy in the highest regard and am extremely glad he sits on the RMEF board. I'd like to echo the request not to pile on and understand he is not their spokesperson nor the RMEF contact.

 

[bigskyblueman]

Something that worries me: In HD 411 the shoulder season will start August 15th, and run through both the archery and general seasons. This shoulder hunt is valid on Private, BLM, and DNRC lands. I archery hunt these lands often. I also hunt these lands with my kids and let them call for me. I can only picture my daughter blowing on a cow call on September 15th and having a 12 year old with a 270 waiting for the slightest bit of movement from the trees thinking he is about to kill his first elk. This is just one area, and it is close to home. I get more furious every time I think about it. Not to mention the entire Western half of the mountain range is under objective. I hear some rich Texans own the other half, and don't imagine these shoulder seasons will do much to curb the ever expanding population in their neck of the woods.

Indeed, another down side is the very real safety hazard created by these hunts. Apparently it was not a consideration.

 

[mtmiller]

Lawnboy, I mean no disrespect to Randy (and I am pretty sure he knows that).

I know this site is not a just a small sand box with only a few opinionated folks, there are also decision makers that browse. I know this from some BLM topics that have been brought up in the past.

I will make my comments on paper, but will use hunttalk to envoke conversation and rattle cages as well.

 

[Lawnboy]

I wasn't trying to point any fingers specifically and I know Randy can fight his own battles. It was just starting to feel like he was the RMEF punching bag. I have a lot of issues with the proposal as well so I'm not saying I agree with their stance either.
I know you guys are just passionate about these issues and that's great. It needs to happen and i believe Randy mentioned that over and over again about all of us taking it to the next level. Getting involved locally and even educating other hunters in our circles. I mentioned it before that I have friends who are all giddy about shooting an elk now. I feel I need to help them understand some of the issues with this proposal.
Carry on.

 

[katqanna]

I tried calling Helena FWP today to get the public comments submitted to the 2 commission meetings in Nov and Dec on shoulder seasons. Often public commenters there will have a written statement they give to the commissioners (like during legislature). I finally got through about 3:30, spoke with the commission sec., who told me the minutes have not been approoved yet, asked me to officially make my request in writing, which I did, and specifically asking for RMEF's statement, if one was submitted. I got a reply back that they will work on my request and get back to me.

I'll post if I get anything.

 

[billy banger]

It didn't have to be this way if SB-245 would have passed. When these So-Called Sportsmen Groups, Montana Wildlife Federation , Laurel Rod & Gun Club, Montana Sportsmen's Alliance, Anaconda Sportsmen's Club, Skyline Sportsman Assoc. & the Helena Hunters & Anglers, testified against SB-245, they claimed that Montana hunters didn't want the crumbs (cow elk) from the table. SB-245 passed both houses of the Montana Legislature, with bipartisan support, only to have these So-Called sportsmen groups persuade Governor Bullock into vetoing the bill. SB-245 would have opened up a least 50 hunting districts across the state with landowners willing to participate, creating thousands of hunting opportunities for Montana hunters. This is 10 times as many hunting districts that are opened now with this year's Shoulder hunts.

These groups along with many of the FWP employees are saying is that they feel that conducting late season cow hunts are accepting the crumbs (cow elk) from the table. Well I guess with the thousands of calls to the FWP and Landowners from hunters wanting to participate in this year's Shoulder hunts (late season cow hunts), that the real Montana hunters don't feel as if these late season cow hunts are crumbs from the table. So the real question that comes to mind do these So-Called Sportsmen groups truly represent the Montana hunter? I don't think so, as a matter of fact everything they have supported has caused us to lose access and opportunity.

 

[tjones]

5 more pages, pass the Tylenol.

 

[Straight Arrow]

And, billy banger, if it had not snowed we wouldn't have had a white Christmas ... but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
So .... assuming you have been paying attention, what are your thoughts on the shoulder season proposals? (topic of this thread)

 

[The Hedgehog]

Time to send the MWF more money..

 

[RobG]

Something that worries me: In HD 411 the shoulder season will start August 15th, and run through both the archery and general seasons. This shoulder hunt is valid on Private, BLM, and DNRC lands. I archery hunt these lands often. I also hunt these lands with my kids and let them call for me. I can only picture my daughter blowing on a cow call on September 15th and having a 12 year old with a 270 waiting for the slightest bit of movement from the trees thinking he is about to kill his first elk. This is just one area, and it is close to home. I get more furious every time I think about it. Not to mention the entire Western half of the mountain range is under objective. I hear some rich Texans own the other half, and don't imagine these shoulder seasons will do much to curb the ever expanding population in their neck of the woods.

Any other thoughts on this?

 

[Straight Arrow]

As mentioned previously, bowhunters would be wise to hunt on National Forest only, if this proposal comes to fruition.

BTW, Rob, 23 elk were tragically killed east of Helena this morning by a train colliding at 60 mph or so. 'Wonder if they were standing on the "shoulder" of the railroad grade.

 

[Bugle 'Em In]

If this article has any bit of truth to it, there won't be stopping shoulder seasons any...

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/st...tional-attention-small-montana-town/78118120/

 

[Lawnboy]

According to this article not many have submitted comments.
http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...cle_df8057b7-aa25-50e3-aff3-0ab9d0bd40f8.html

Looks like comments can be made here:
{span}Comments on hunting season changes can be made until Jan. 22 at http://1.usa.gov/1VoyDeg.{/span}

 

[SixPoint]

In the Chronicle article it states: "Guidelines for the seasons require that area landowners allow public access during the general season and that most of the elk killed in the district are killed during the general season."

This is not true at all. Unlike a damage hunt there are NO requirements for landowners to allow access during the general season, they can participate regardless.

Also, very concerning only 119 of us have submitted comments....we need to rally!

 

[Straight Arrow]

...NO requirements for landowners to allow access during the general season, they can participate regardless.

'Good point, SixPoint, and that is why there is concern that this may even decrease "Public" hunting access and increase private access with more outfitting, access fees, and other landowner compensation for access. Proponents of the proposal, including FWP, cite increased access as a reason for shoulder seasons. It is unclear how that would happen, unless the rules require public access during the general season and/or shoulder season ... and then how do you regulate that if the shoulder season area is the entire hunting district or large acreages?

 

[SixPoint]

there is concern that this may even decrease "Public" hunting access and increase private access with more outfitting, access fees, and other landowner compensation for access.

SA, you couldn't be more right, and to me this will only encourage landowners to lock up their access further. Why not have your cake and eat it too if it's legal!

 

[RobG]

In the Chronicle article it states: "Guidelines for the seasons require that area landowners allow public access during the general season and that most of the elk killed in the district are killed during the general season."

This is not true at all. Unlike a damage hunt there are NO requirements for landowners to allow access during the general season, they can participate regardless.

Also, very concerning only 119 of us have submitted comments....we need to rally!

The "guidelines" are likely referring to the criteria set by the commission. They are district wide, meaning on average those and some other criteria have to be met in order for the HD to be rewarded with a shoulder season. If many landowners decide to not provide public access the commission won't allow them to keep the shoulder season. I'm not saying it is a great idea or it will be enforced... but that is probably what they were talking about.

But yes, this shoulder season looks to me like it will eventually be an end-around of the public access requirement during the general season and also during the shoulder season.

I talked with a rancher today and he is looking forward to the shoulder season because he can pick competent hunters. He actively helps the hunters get their elk, but he is pretty sick of the incompetent and/or out-of-shape people that show up from the roster and expect to get an elk without hiking. I have a lot of sympathy for him and others, but that means he's going to be picking people he knows and that doesn't bode well for the average hunter who doesn't have an uncle with a ranch.

Early comments don't carry any more weight and I'd like to know how the season in WSS is going and the reason RMEF is supporting it before submitting. That's just me though.

 

[SixPoint]

Rob, thanks for your input. I agree with you and believe we are on the same page. Regarding the "criteria" the commission uses to decide on a shoulder season, do you know where I could find it? I'd be curious to give it a look. Unfortunately there is no perfect answer for this delima, however, I believe as sportsmen it is our responsibility to make a lot of noise in an effort to protect Montana elk from commercialization, which in my opinion is exactly what will be the end result from the shoulder seasons.

 

[----]

Public Meetings start tonight.

18 days left to get comments in.