shoots-straight
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guess shooter doesn't participate in the archery season.
MT proposed season changes
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Anyone attendiing the January 16th public meeting on these proposed changes in Kalispell?
I'll be attending with a friend - From my experience in hunting - I'll be going simply to listen... I don't really see to many dramatic changes concerning region 1... though more statewide issues? If there are some concerning issues for the region 1 area - would someone share the thought process of those areas of interest?
I would like to become more active in the legislative action more silent to start though hopefully build some more focused knowledge on topics found of interest w/ folks here...
I'll be attending with a friend - From my experience in hunting - I'll be going simply to listen... I don't really see to many dramatic changes concerning region 1... though more statewide issues? If there are some concerning issues for the region 1 area - would someone share the thought process of those areas of interest?
I would like to become more active in the legislative action more silent to start though hopefully build some more focused knowledge on topics found of interest w/ folks here...
belly-deep
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Big Shooter
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Maybe the very start of it, but at least the last two weeks when the majority of the mature deer are going at it the season would be closed, again just a thought. Sorry to all archery hunters, wasn't thinking about that, I guess that would have to open earlier too. However it would work I guess, just so the last two weeks of the rifle season would not be open. It sure seems to work in Wyoming.
Lawnboy
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shoots-straight
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The problem is most people that hunt mule deer believe it's their god given right to shoot one every year. So the harvest will still take place at the same number. We've found out that the only way to insure better quality deer is to limit the number of hunters in a given district. When that happens you limit the NR hunters to 10% of the draw. How would that effect you shooter?
Big Shooter
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It wouldn't affect me at all since I am a resident. I guess that I was more concerned about the quality not the quantity. I do agree though that everyone thinks that it is their God given right to shoot a mule deer and that is the issue. If those jackasses were not out "driving around" during the last two weeks of the current season, those three and a half to four and a half year old 4 points wouldn't get blown over from the road (including the one that Greenhorn shoots). If the FWP really needs to leave their season open through the precious Thanksgiving weekend, make it does only and make sure to have plenty of Game Wardens out there to bust the yo yo's that will poach the rutting bucks.
belly-deep
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Don't 250 and 240 close Nov 15?
Has the size increased enough to make it worth losing two weeks of hunting?
You guys are being a little naive...the solution to the mule deer problem is much more complex than not letting a few lazy hunters blast them from the road.
Has the size increased enough to make it worth losing two weeks of hunting?
You guys are being a little naive...the solution to the mule deer problem is much more complex than not letting a few lazy hunters blast them from the road.
shoots-straight
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That's correct. The problem is that right next door, and also on the opposite side of the valley, 261, and 270, are limited draw. I think 70 tags total. So everyone puts in for the other 2 districts as second or 3rd choice. Both were unlimited permit areas last year. Over 900 tags went to 250. We had the F & G fly (paid for by Ravalli County Fish & Wildlife ASS.) to count deer. On the winter range on the East Fork side of 250 just over 200 deer were counted, 3 bucks. 2 yearlings and 1 2 year old. Many deer that are poached in the limited area 270 are claimed in 250. FW&P's knows this. Next year we hope to go to to a limited draw for the whole of Ravalli County. It would stop the poaching, and start building back those dwindling herds.
belly-deep
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I've thought they should do away with the 2nd and 3rd choice stuff for a long time. They should make hunters think a bit more about what they actually want to do in the fall instead of giving them a guaranteed tag someway or another in a place like the Bitterroot.
The Hedgehog
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Funny that "most" MT hunters/outfitters spew the same - yet their rafters and client muley portfolios are chuck full of spindly-horn dinks taken during the rut.
belly-deep
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You got that right. I think everyone should go shoot a whitetail instead of knocking over a small muley. It would help our deer herds out quite a bit.
Big Shooter
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I would agree with that 100% in our area. Unfortunately, many hunters both resident as well as nonresident, locals and pumkins from the western part of the state don't comprehend the difference between good and bad or young and old. Some of our locals are the worst. Not much you can do about that as a trophy is strictly an opinion. But if the last two weeks were closed completely, adding those two weeks on to the front of the season, or making the last two weeks a draw with very limited numbers according to the unit and strict "micro" managing, you sure might see a difference in a matter of a couple of years. There is nothing saying that we have to hunt the last two weeks of November if it would mean better quality in the long run.
sweetnectar
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I'd love to see some bigger mule deer in Montana as well. Management is the only way to get. there.
The Hedgehog
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All the management in the world won't keep hunters from shooting dinks.
shoots-straight
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That's not all bad. Shooting dinks adds to the quality of the herd and the diversity. You have to limit the number of hunters killing bucks though. The area has to have some genes for size. Not all area's will produce B & C bucks. You can improve the quality the area has to offer though. Last year in our limited entry area's I know of 3 bucks that went over 200" and a couple of near that mark. Now if we could limit the Poaching, and slow down the Native American take a little.
The Hedgehog
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Facts don't stir the pot as well.
belly-deep
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That is true. Look at Utah. They've whittled themselves back to what is now a 5 day season or something like that. Their hunting still sucks outside of the limited draw areas. I'm a little hesitant to cut back too severely on our season before we really take a close look at things, but what we have going could definately be cleaned up a little.
There are areas that take a pounding during the last few weeks but shutting those places off would displace hunters...and where would they go? Our elk herds might see more pressure for one thing. And what about units that aren't suffering from over-harvest? How are you going to convince those hunters that they need to give up a couple weeks of hunting?
I met the biologist from region 4 once. We got to talking about management and I asked how closing 400, 401, 403 and 406 on November 15 was working. He said he had not seen much of an increase in buck size during their winter surveys and if it was up to him, they'd go back to closing on Thanksgiving.
I don't think a November 15th close would be advantageous in all of Montana, but certainly in a few. The problem is, where do the displaced hunters go? The units that are still open and crowding just gets worse the last two weeks.
There is no good answer, I guess that is why the FWP is still sitting on their hands.
belly-deep
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I hate to sound like a greenie, but I think one of the best and fairest ways to help out game herds is to close roads and any areas open to ATVs. Most people won't walk an honest 3-4 miles, let alone shoot a dink when they get there.
Bambistew
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I've thought about this for many years and I'm not sure there is any good solution that would make everyone happy. I'd love to get to hunt 'big' deer every year in MT and go where ever I want, but that isn't going to happen. Big deer and general tags don't work. There are too many hunters, and the equipment we have and the access via ATV's now is unreal. The deer get hammered, dinks and mature bucks. CO was in the same positoin that MT is now in... look what happened there. Before you know it you'll all be hunting a specific unit for 5-30 days a year. I'd rather have the opportunity to hunt the prarie, mountains, and everything in between for 11 weeks and settle for an average deer than be limited on when and where I can go.
I think Co has a great managment system, but I also don't think every state should be managed the same. UT elk sucks for opportunity, but is great for quality. Can't have both. I really don't care if I ever hunt UT. I really could care less about shooting one of their big elk... BFD. its managed to the point that permit holders complain when they can only find and kill 340-350 class bulls. People are so hung up on 'inches' and ego and have forgot about the hunt.
Pesonally I think the early closures have little impact, and possibly the opposite. Think about it, if you could hunt an area that you 'think' is being managed for quality but could only hunt it the first 3 weeks, or you could hunt an area that has no management but can hunt it for 5 weeks... where would you go first? IMO if it was left alone and opened back up to the full 5 weeks, it would lower the hunter numbers, and likely keep the harvest about the same.
I think Co has a great managment system, but I also don't think every state should be managed the same. UT elk sucks for opportunity, but is great for quality. Can't have both. I really don't care if I ever hunt UT. I really could care less about shooting one of their big elk... BFD. its managed to the point that permit holders complain when they can only find and kill 340-350 class bulls. People are so hung up on 'inches' and ego and have forgot about the hunt.
Pesonally I think the early closures have little impact, and possibly the opposite. Think about it, if you could hunt an area that you 'think' is being managed for quality but could only hunt it the first 3 weeks, or you could hunt an area that has no management but can hunt it for 5 weeks... where would you go first? IMO if it was left alone and opened back up to the full 5 weeks, it would lower the hunter numbers, and likely keep the harvest about the same.
