More deer killed by wolves than hunters in some Wisconsin counties

[bluespruce]

I didn't realize Wisconsin had such a poor deer herd. I mean, it's only 2 million animals w/1 county as a buck only zone.

The horror.

Deer population at potential record high as hunters set sights on 2019 Wisconsin gun season

The Department of Natural Resources estimates 2 million white-tailed deer are present in Wisconsin, providing good prospects for hunters in the 2019 gun season.

www.jsonline.com

And somehow, despite a record number of animals, deer harvest was down 25% or so.

 

[westbranch]

I'm gonna have to get the crayons out pretty soon to explain this...

Wolves need to be managed. In their current state with their populations where they are at and the number of hunters, they need to be managed. Either wolves need to be managed or half the tags need to be issued. There isn't room for both wolves and humans to grow and continue to kill at the rate they are.

Now, say if there weren't wolves in the midwest, I would vote to keep from reintroducing them. Due to the fact that there are more than enough hunters to keep deer populations in check, there is no need for wolves. This is my opinion, hence the statement about there not being room for them in the midwest, in my opinion.

As far as "my" social desires, I'd say my desire is to continue to hunt deer in my home state of Minnesota (I feel like a few people might agree with that statement) . I would appreciate if wolves could be managed so herd populations stop falling. I get your social desire might be different being wolves won't affect bird numbers but as far as big game goes they have an impact. Also note that it looks as though you Coyote hunt? Well wolves will run out or kill Coyotes in their territory.

Now that wolves are here they obviously aren't going anywhere. But they need to be managed if we wish to continue having the good deer populations we've always had.

I grew up on a farm west of Duluth and we had wolves in our area starting in the late 80s. Wolves and coyotes are both still there. I had trail cam pics of wolves and coyotes on a deer carcass within 4-5 hours of each other a few times.

 

[Ben Lamb]

And somehow, despite a record number of animals, deer harvest was down 25% or so.

From the article:

An estimated 580,000 hunters are expected to take part.
Last year hunters registered 219,715 deer (106,038 bucks,113,675 antlerless deer and 2 unknowns) in the nine-day gun deer season, an 11% increase from the previous year.

 

[Sytes]

Thread so nominated for a Boomer poll.

 

[bluespruce]

From the article:
An estimated 580,000 hunters are expected to take part.
Last year hunters registered 219,715 deer (106,038 bucks,113,675 antlerless deer and 2 unknowns) in the nine-day gun deer season, an 11% increase from the previous year.

That was "last" year (2018).
This is "this" year (2019 ie the year with the record deer herd):
https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...-day-gun-hunting-season-wisconsin/4350622002/

From the article:
Hunters registered 160,769 white-tailed deer in the Wisconsin nine-day gun deer season, a 25% decline from 2018 and the lowest in 39 years, according to Department of Natural Resources data.

Maybe its just me but "record deer herd" and "lowest harvest in 39 years" don't seem to jive.

 

[MTGomer]

Ain’t nobody getting smarter off this one.

 

[Ben Lamb]

That was "last" year (2018).
This is "this" year (2019 ie the year with the record deer herd):
https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...-day-gun-hunting-season-wisconsin/4350622002/

From the article:
Hunters registered 160,769 white-tailed deer in the Wisconsin nine-day gun deer season, a 25% decline from 2018 and the lowest in 39 years, according to Department of Natural Resources data.

Maybe its just me but "record deer herd" and "lowest harvest in 39 years" don't seem to jive.

Got it. Thanks!

Lots of factors to consider, but it would seem with more deer & fewer harvests, it's tough to put the blame on wolves. Loss of access, loss of hunters, etc would be your biggest indicators.

 

[BWALKER77]

This assumes that the only use for a deer is for human consumption. I think that's an easy position to take, as it really doesn't mean you look beyond that one use of an animal, whereas having a full suite of animals, both predator and prey, at levels that can sustain hunting as well as the genetic diversity needed for future populations of animals is more difficult in terms of management.

As for the importance of habitat versus predator control - one is proven to work over the longest period of time, and for the best use of the funding(habitat conservation) while the other is not.

You are assuming you cant improve habitat, while also managing predators. In fact you can do both.

 

[Ben Lamb]

You are assuming you cant improve habitat, while also managing predators. In fact you can do both.

I'm a fiscal conservative who wants to put the limited amount of funding to it's highest & best use. Not throw it away on programs with no value over the long-haul.

 

[BWALKER77]

I'm a fiscal conservative who wants to put the limited amount of funding to it's highest & best use. Not throw it away on programs with no value over the long-haul.

Great! Me too. Allowing hunters to manage predators generates money through license sales.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Great! Me too. Allowing hunters to manage predators generates money through license sales.

It's hunters asking the govt to go in & kill predators. I'm all for folks doing it through their seasons. It doesn't change the fact that ungulate numbers are more influenced by habitat than any other issue.

 

[Sytes]

Through 2017, Montana has raised 2.75 million in wolf tag sales... Not bad. Hunters asking the gov't to identify actual #'s and "manage" the apex predator population in areas where the impact to ungulates is in excess or needed to permit ungulate #'s to recover... not as the sole contributor to the loss, though as one aspect to the loss - such as the Selkirk caribou, now gone.

 

[ImBillT]

Are we so selfish as a community that we begrudge other living things the right to eat?

How many corn ear worms, tomato horn worms, aphids, and squash bugs would you like on your garden? Enough to eat more of your garden than you eat? If you’re okay with that, it’s probably because you at least have the option to go buy your produce. That produce comes from someone who controls all of those pests.

The very same thing applies to your meat. I don’t remember what pod cast I was listening to, but a guest was saying that he was okay with with letting wolves eat some game, even if it meant going home with an unfilled tag every other year. I couldn’t help but wonder how quickly his opinion would change IF the only way he could eat meat that year was by filling that tag. The fact is, when we buy meat because we fail to fill out tag, the animal we eat was still raised on a piece of habitat, consumed food that was grown on a piece of habitat, and protected from being eaten by anyone or anything else before we bought it. When predators cause a decrease in tag allocation and/or a decrease hunter success, they also cause the requirement that more livestock be raised and more crops be grown in order to replace that food source for the hunters who failed to fill their freezer with game. Much of that livestock is raised somewhere that predators are controlled. It’s easy to forget about the reality of the situation, but it is very real.

I would love for someone to buy a few cattle and chickens, and plant a garden in the middle of wolf country, avoid putting up any barrier to protect against predators, avoid shooting predators, avoid any kind of pest control in their garden, never consume any food product that doesn’t come from their very own livestock and garden, and see how long they stick it out. Remember, no protective fencing or shelter, no trapping or killing, no control or deterrent of any kind. You can’t “begrudge other living things the right to eat”.

Every piece of food you’ve ever put in your mouth would have been eaten by something else given the chance.

 

[BuzzH]

Sorry, but I don't believe every stitch of our public, wild ungulates needs to end up as a human turd...

 

[ImBillT]

It's hunters asking the govt to go in & kill predators. I'm all for folks doing it through their seasons. It doesn't change the fact that ungulate numbers are more influenced by habitat than any other issue.

There is a lot of habitat on this planet that is wonderfully suitable for animals IF there are limited or no predators, but provides rather poor habitat if predators exist there. Louis and Clark saw very little game in areas where it is abundant today. Two factors play an overwhelming role in that. Predator control, and agriculture. Predator control IS HABITAT IMPROVEMENT.

If we set an upper limit on the old population why would it matter how the excess was killed? That’s management. If hunters can’t/don’t do it on their own, then by all means, let the government do it.

 

[ImBillT]

Sorry, but I don't believe every stitch of our public, wild ungulates needs to end up as a human turd...

There’s a big difference between anything I said and EVERY WILD TASTY ANIMAL BEING EATEN BY A PERSON...

 

[BuzzH]

There’s a big difference between anything I said and EVERY WILD TASTY ANIMAL BEING EATEN BY A PERSON...

I don't believe Ben Lamb said anything about EVERY WILD AND TASTY ANIMAL BEING EATEN BY A PREDATOR either.

So, what point are you trying to make?

 

[ImBillT]

I don't believe Ben Lamb said anything about EVERY WILD AND TASTY ANIMAL BEING EATEN BY A PREDATOR either.

So, what point are you trying to make?

A) At what point did I accuse him of such? You’re arguing with me over something I never said.

B) The point I’m trying to make is that the reason we don’t have mass human starvation the way we once did is that we manipulate our environment for our benefit. That manipulation ranges from plowing and irrigation to predator control. 99% of those opposed to any of those manipulations try to hide, or minimize the reality of the costs to abandoning that manipulation, and often avoid a lot of those costs to themselves. Shut down farm irrigation in California, who cares, we can buy produce from Mexico where they don’t really care about the environment. Place barriers to the successful management of wolves, you’ll still eat, but ONLY BECAUSE YOU BUY YOUR FOOD FROM SOMEWHERE WITHOUT A WOLF PROBLEM.

 

[1eyedshooter]

Wolves are taking there share of deer in the U.P of Michigan from what I have read !!!!

 

[TheJason]

Comparing gardening to wildlife management?

@MTGomer is right. We may even be getting dumber.