Michigan firearm deer hunt numbers plummet, particularly in U.P., and locals blame wolves

[Grover4360]

Probably more than you kemosabe.

I imagine everyone up in arms about this are fat lards driving around truck hunting on public roads crushing beers with a gun hanging out the window, blasting whatever 80s rock takes them back to their youth when they were +hair and -beergut. ‘Haven’t seen shit today, must be them darn wolves!’

There is no way you hunt more than I do or cover more ground. I’m retired, don’t have a beer belly, or slug beer when I hunt. So let’s compare Mr smart guy. This year, I start in may, in Idaho, black bear, mountain lion and wait for it…. Wolf. No Bait BTW, then it’s off to South Africa for a few weeks. Then to Wyoming for our annual antelope hunt, stay a few more days then hunt rifle elk. Next we go to Colorado for an Elk Bow hunt for 10 days. Home for a week then up to our MN property for 3 weeks, close camp, then WI for 10 days. After all that I trap for the rest of December. Oh, and I’m currently in Palm Springs hiking the mountains with a 50 pond pack, so I’m ready again this year.
Let’s hear what you got going this year. I already know, you got nothing in comparison! Your generalization is stupid.

 

[VikingsGuy]

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I could go all day.

WTF? Punching down on the Amish? What does over priced, somewhat ugly but sturdy furniture have to do with this thread

 

[VikingsGuy]

Whenever a poster uses, "OK Mr. Smart Guy", I know it is time to move to a different thread.

 

[mntatonka]

it's simple. Yes, a wolf hunt should happen, but being a dick about it isn't what gets the law changed so that can happen. Call and write your reps, be respectful. Support your local outdoors organizations that have the contacts and the lobbying power.

 

[Grover4360]

I have a tract (not sure I would call it large) in N MN and we have seen the ups and downs of wolves, moose, wolves, grouse, etc. It is all about enjoying nature in its many forms. If I want to hit something with a bullet I go to the 1,000 range. If I want meat in the freezer I go for elk out west or Costco just down the road. If I want to hunt and conserve nature in N MN (an area I love) I appreciate the opportunity and embrace the cycles.

Yup I enjoy being ion the woods as well. And I appreciate all that it has to offer. My only point is that our wolf pack has grown beyond our imagination and they need quotas and controls just like other game species. I don’t want to wipe them off the planet.. just balance!

 

[seeth07]

I have a tract (not sure I would call it large) in N MN and we have seen the ups and downs of wolves, moose, wolves, grouse, etc. It is all about enjoying nature in its many forms. If I want to hit something with a bullet I go to the 1,000 range. If I want meat in the freezer I go for elk out west or Costco just down the road. If I want to hunt and conserve nature in N MN (an area I love) I appreciate the opportunity and embrace the cycles.

well said

 

[VikingsGuy]

Yup I enjoy being ion the woods as well. And I appreciate all that it has to offer. My only point is that our wolf pack has grown beyond our imagination and they need quotas and controls just like other game species. I don’t want to wipe them off the planet.. just balance!

If balance is what you want, get the science for what the balance should be, commit to DNR culls rather than hunting season, and head to DC with some of your free time and start negotiating a change in the law. Maybe you are different, but 95% of those seeking "balance" just want more tags - tags for the predator, tags for the prey.

 

[seeth07]

WTF? Punching down on the Amish? What does over priced, somewhat ugly but sturdy furniture have to do with this thread

Well I was technically going for Mennonite and I know its very stereotypical of me but there is no denying the fact that in certain regions, they typically operate on their own laws and rules which does include hunting seasons and take of game.

 

[Sytes]

it's simple. Yes, a wolf hunt should happen, but being a dick about it isn't what gets the law changed so that can happen. Call and write your reps, be respectful. Support your local outdoors organizations that have the contacts and the lobbying power.

Orrr... Have your congressional representatives slide a nice caveat into the next budget bill... This is the ONLY reason Montana and Idaho (and WY) are authorized to manage our own wolves. Outside of that, we would still have the Center for B.S. Diversity, Howling for Injustice, Offenders of Wildlife, Brown Peace, Pata-hosya, etc. placing injunction after injunction with whatever circuit court is denying State management as it is...

Good luck Colorado... You have one hell of a long time to get to that point... Oregon, Washington, U.P... etc.

You guys/gals need some Representatives with the huevos to do what Democrat John Tester of MT and Republican Mike Simpson of ID teamed together to slide in a previous Budget Bill...

@SAJ-99 We've shared our counters. Always appreciate our debates. The extent of this has run its course. Best - Agree/Disagree... Agree with some - not all. All good. Cheers.

 

[Dubz337]

There is no way you hunt more than I do or cover more ground. I’m retired, don’t have a beer belly, or slug beer when I hunt. So let’s compare Mr smart guy. This year, I start in may, in Idaho, black bear, mountain lion and wait for it…. Wolf. No Bait BTW, then it’s off to South Africa for a few weeks. Then to Wyoming for our annual antelope hunt, stay a few more days then hunt rifle elk. Next we go to Colorado for an Elk Bow hunt for 10 days. Home for a week then up to our MN property for 3 weeks, close camp, then WI for 10 days. After all that I trap for the rest of December. Oh, and I’m currently in Palm Springs hiking the mountains with a 50 pond pack, so I’m ready again this year.
Let’s hear what you got going this year. I already know, you got nothing in comparison! Your generalization is stupid.

I like how you got completely off the original topic you were seething about to try and start a d*ck-measuring contest about how much you hunt. I don’t doubt you’re retired, you have quite the case of manopause going on. I’m FN, I hunt year round except for the dead of winter. Super impressed with all those guided hunts you’re showing off with. Do they skin the animals for you too?

Back on topic though, wolf populations now are nothing compared to what they were for thousands of years prior. You just got used to hunting with no predator populations to speak of, no shit there were more deer, and they were easier to spot cause guess what, no natural predators to worry about. I go into the woods to be part of nature, to compete with what’s there, not in some asinine thinking that I’m owed something from it, or another predator is less deserving of a deer than I am. Deer are still there, just now they’re actually acting like deer because there’s more predators in the woods. Do you want to work for something you’re hunting, or do you want it handed to you?

Also, first place anyone thinks of when thinking of rough terrain is definitely Palm Springs lol

 

[VikingsGuy]

I like how you got completely off the original topic you were seething about to try and start a d*ck-measuring contest about how much you hunt.

At least he didn't spam us with 50 grip and grin pics like some do on other threads

 

[sccritterkiller]

There is no way you hunt more than I do or cover more ground. I’m retired, don’t have a beer belly, or slug beer when I hunt. So let’s compare Mr smart guy. This year, I start in may, in Idaho, black bear, mountain lion and wait for it…. Wolf. No Bait BTW, then it’s off to South Africa for a few weeks. Then to Wyoming for our annual antelope hunt, stay a few more days then hunt rifle elk. Next we go to Colorado for an Elk Bow hunt for 10 days. Home for a week then up to our MN property for 3 weeks, close camp, then WI for 10 days. After all that I trap for the rest of December. Oh, and I’m currently in Palm Springs hiking the mountains with a 50 pond pack, so I’m ready again this year.
Let’s hear what you got going this year. I already know, you got nothing in comparison! Your generalization is stupid.

We all measure hogs in our own way.

 

[Dubz337]

We all measure hogs in our own way.

Always have to adjust for the yaw

 

[KB_]

They certainly have a high predator population in the upper peninsula of Michigan. Especially when you compare to the lower peninsula. However Michigan does not break down quotas by units and instead just has the general tag for almost all the county's across the state does not really help. This may have changed, I've been away from Michigan since 2017.

I agree the predator population should be managed. But the deer population needs to be managed by region also. The DNR did a good thing by forcing a 4pts to a side in a lot of county's in Michigan in recent years and the age class of deer is showing the difference. At least in Newago, Montcalm and Kent County's where my family lives. Gone are the days where if you see what looks like a horn on a buck it gets shot. But in the Upper Peninsula you simply cant have that many hunters on the landscape shooting the same critters the predators are eating and expect there to be a ton of deer around.

A. The ones still alive are a lot smarter, much harder to close in on.
B. Sitting by the road in your truck waiting for one to cross the road is not going to be an effective strategy anymore.
C. I could see that as helping the CWD problem in Michigan if the predators are eating them and getting off the landscape.

A lot of people are more then willing to troll you when you come onto this forum spewing nonsense without real facts to back it up. If you take a look around, you can find real data on wildlife management around here, and you will noticed people then are willing to engage in a professional manner. But you will also notice if you come in acting like a fool you will be treated as such. This is the internet after all.

Might want to give RokSlide a try.

 

[Grover4360]

If balance is what you want, get the science for what the balance should be, commit to DNR culls rather than hunting season, and head to DC with some of your free time and start negotiating a change in the law. Maybe you are different, but 95% of those seeking "balance" just want more tags - tags for the predator, tags for the prey.

No, I don’t want more tags. I’m hoping I can restore what our hunt property used to be, I like seeing deer opening weekend instead of 4 wolves. I would rather have the DNR guys cull them to be honest. They know where most of the packs reside. We do make an honest attempt to work with our DMR, I religiously do the surveys and requests for input.

 

[Grover4360]

I like how you got completely off the original topic you were seething about to try and start a d*ck-measuring contest about how much you hunt. I don’t doubt you’re retired, you have quite the case of manopause going on. I’m FN, I hunt year round except for the dead of winter. Super impressed with all those guided hunts you’re showing off with. Do they skin the animals for you too?

Back on topic though, wolf populations now are nothing compared to what they were for thousands of years prior. You just got used to hunting with no predator populations to speak of, no shit there were more deer, and they were easier to spot cause guess what, no natural predators to worry about. I go into the woods to be part of nature, to compete with what’s there, not in some asinine thinking that I’m owed something from it, or another predator is less deserving of a deer than I am. Deer are still there, just now they’re actually acting like deer because there’s more predators in the woods. Do you want to work for something you’re hunting, or do you want it handed to you?

Also, first place anyone thinks of when thinking of rough terrain is definitely Palm Springs lol

No really, the San Jacinto mountains are pretty big, they just got 20 inches of snow last night…. I know it seems illogical!

 

[brymoore]

Not saying that the current trail-cam method isn't better than previous approach, which was a WAG, but it is silly to say there isn't a large SE in the method. Critics will criticize, but it is easy when ID clearly wants to have a high population count to justify its seasons. ID would revert back to poisoning them if they were allowed. My point is any argument that there is no food for wolves but lots of wolves is hard to make.

Wildlife Services collared a female wolf in Idaho and returned in the spring to kill 8 pups in the den. Killing pups in the den isn’t too far away from poisoning.

 

[atlas]

https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/2023/02/15/rep-markkanen-urges-dnr-use-up-wolves-re-establish-population-lower-peninsula/\

“Public support for wolves has historically been high among Michigan’s Lower Peninsula residents,” said Markkanen, R-Hancock. “I’ve heard it from Lower Peninsula residents themselves – they often express envy in the UP’s privilege to live side-by-side with wolves. I urge the DNR to re-establish a viable and self-sustaining wolf population in the Lower Peninsula by re-locating as many wolves as possible from the UP’s thriving population.”

Maybe you'll have them down south soon too

 

[Ben Lamb]

https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/2023/02/15/rep-markkanen-urges-dnr-use-up-wolves-re-establish-population-lower-peninsula/\

Maybe you'll have them down south soon too

Soon enough we'll have the "DNR loaded em up in the UP and dropped them off in the Pigeon. My brother's, cousin's, friend's girlfriend's uncle's probation officer said so. So you know it's real."

There are no shortage of people in the lower with no idea what a wolf is who are 100% convinced that wolves are in the Huron/Manistee and Sleeping Bear Dunes. The usually offer evidence of a coyote on a game cam.

GL population should be delisted. Until the Services DPS rule is altered, it's a legal slug fest and the other side has the law on their side at the moment. About the only thing that would work for a GL population delisting is congressional action, I'm afraid.

MI, WI & MN can easily manage wolves. They've been at the forefront of it for the last 40 years anyway, let's bring it home.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The USFWS issued this today: https://www.fws.gov/sites/default/files/documents/20240201_wolf12m_fr-notice_508.pdf

The TLDR is wolves won't be relisted in the west anytime soon. They also changed the NRM DPS to a western DPS to include coastal states as well as CO, etc. That reconfiguring of the DPS is helpful in that we now how a Distinct Population Segment that is wide-spread and takes most of the states to really screw something up to cause another review.

For the Great Lakes population - this does show that the agency is working to redo how the Service looks at delisting, and if they can figure it out, they'll try again. There is a 2 year peace accord that will happen so that various sides can try and figure this all out nationally, but I don't know if the intransigence of the far left will let anything come of it.