Montana season structure proposal 2.0

[sclancy27]

I know you didn’t ask me Sean but I will give you my .02 anyway. When I discuss things with the bios, they do have hunter estimates for areas. I’m not sure how or what methodology these are based upon (and from hunter surveys I have taken, I would probably question there validity) but currently I would start with the numbers from the bios. Looking at that in whole across the state I would break those allocations up based on public access and game populations. It would be pretty simple for a GIS whiz to put some starting numbers together. Even I could do this in a couple days of work. This would be better than the commission just pulling numbers out of their arse.

However a better approach would be to require the fwp to get the data before implementing anything and that’s where I stand on all this at this juncture. I don’t see a downside to that. I need to know the juice is worth the squeeze. Right now I feel we are in the current US congress giant omnibus mode where we just have to pass it to know what’s in it.

I actually just took a bull elk through a game station on Sunday. I got asked what hunting district and they counted the points on the bull. Other than that they only wanted to know how many bears I saw, whether they were black or grizzly and how many wolves. It would have been pretty easy to get the rest of the info needed.

I include you in "others".

Also, PM'd you.

 

[sclancy27]

Historical harvest for region 7 mule deer bucks used to be 60% resident 40% nonresident roughly depending on the year. That started to shift around 2010 to now where it’s almost opposite. Certainly doesn’t seem unreasonable to shift that harvest back to 60% resident and 40% nonresident, that is still extremely generous.

Here is the visual representation of what @DFS is talking about. Total MD buck harvest over the same period has been roughly flat (with protrusions based on the ebb and flow of population).

 

[Irrelevant]

Here is the visual representation of what @DFS is talking about. Total MD buck harvest over the same period has been roughly flat (with protrusions based on the ebb and flow of population).
View attachment 347022

NR License Cap = 4k (total harvest)/2 (1/2 for R's 1/2 for NRs) / 30% (my WAG for success rate).

 

[sclancy27]

NR License Cap = 4k (total harvest)/2 (1/2 for R's 1/2 for NRs) / 30% (my WAG for success rate).

Median total (NR and R) Mule Deer buck harvest in R7 over the last 20 yrs is ~8700. So, you would decrease that by more than half?

 

[Irrelevant]

Median total (NR and R) Mule Deer buck harvest in R7 over the last 20 yrs is ~8700. So, you would decrease that by more than half?

Shit, why not, I don't hunt MT!

The process is the same, you just have to decide how many total bucks you want to kill.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Clearly the answer to all of our problems regarding balancing supply and demand with over exploitation of the resource is to allow OTC tags for both R and NR throughout the state but only allow for 1/10of them to be used. The other 9/10 of the tags would be simulation tags where folks can pretend they’re going to kill something.

Pretty much like elk hunting currently is today….

 

[sclancy27]

Shit, why not, I don't hunt MT!

The process is the same, you just have to decide how many total bucks you want to kill.

I guess that is kind of my point, at what point does the line get drawn and what is the justification for drawing it? Remember, FWP is going to be the one making that determination. The chance of them decreasing tags from the median harvest is essentially 0. I find it more likely they increase tags to represent the proportion of population in R6 and R7, thus potentially increasing hunter numbers by limiting other regions. Which is the reason we went the incentive route, less chances for unintended consequences.

 

[Irrelevant]

I guess that is kind of my point, at what point does the line get drawn and what is the justification for drawing it? Remember, FWP is going to be the one making that determination. The chance of them decreasing tags from the median harvest is essentially 0. I find it more likely they increase tags to represent the proportion of population in R6 and R7, thus potentially increasing hunter numbers by limiting other regions. Which is the reason we went the incentive route, less chances for unintended consequences.

If you just want to start then argue for 10 yr median # of bucks (2008-2018), exclude post-covid because no one supports that.

 

[sclancy27]

If you just want to start then argue for 10 yr median # of bucks (2008-2018), exclude post-covid because no one supports that.

Harvest has gone down since COVID....

 

[Ben Lamb]

I know who @Irrelevant is voting for on Tuesday.

 

[otter82]

It is alarming how the mule deer numbers have declined. I like these podcasts, many things discussed I have thought about while hunting.

Reduce the tags, give them a rest. I want my kids to have the same opportunities I had.

 

[SAJ-99]

Harvest has gone down since COVID....
View attachment 347036

Probably because the population has gone down since covid. I can eyeball those numbers and say they correlate pretty high with population. The NR/R numbers are messy. Steady increase is probably due to increasing popularity and social media influence. The NR numbers got a boost after the 2008-09 recession which is all the pieces of money and availability coming together.

Just call WY and ask them how they did it for general elk zones. It is only as hard or complicated as they want to make it.

 

[Irrelevant]

Harvest has gone down since COVID....
View attachment 347036

Yes, sorry, was thinking of the previous graph showing the large increase in NR licenses, but it's irrelevant (see what I did there?) to what we were actually talking about, which was determining the level of acceptable harvest.

 

[brockel]

I’m in 3 and I can have 7. I was just being a smartass… You’re not wrong. Does anyone actually shoot 7!!?? Hell no! if they lowered it to 3 with One of those being your general tag I’d be fine with that..

I know a family of four that fills every one of them on public until this year

 

[brockel]

Hunters are happy

 

[cgasner1]

Hunters are happy
View attachment 347073
View attachment 347072

Got my father in law a cow last weekend when we rolled thru I was asked if I had “opportunity” to harvest one also told him ya but im not punching a general on a cow second day of season. Guy was in disbelief I let a cow walk.

 

[brockel]

Got my father in law a cow last weekend when we rolled thru I was asked if I had “opportunity” to harvest one also told him ya but im not punching a general on a cow second day of season. Guy was in disbelief I let a cow walk.

You evidently haven’t heard that we are at war with that cow you let walk

 

[cgasner1]

You evidently haven’t heard that we are at war with that cow you let walk

She never did anything to me

 

[Coule stalker]

I’m just starting to dig into these topics/conversation here so please give me a little grace… what about antler point restrictions and alternating between white tail and mule deer buck tags? Can only harvest a mulie every other year?

 

[Nick87]

what about antler point restrictions

They don't work. Counter productive at best.