Montana mule deer

[The Hedgehog]

#shitdeerhuntingismemories

 

[antlerradar]

Kind of regretting bringing up the antler points thing at this point haha. Should of kept that one to myself.

not this thread, but the one greenhorn linked to. This thread is both entertaining an informative

 

[KB_]

JLS, JONAS, you two personally, you better hope you don’t tell somebody I know your handle on here in real life. I would pay $500 to throw bare knuckles with y’all you make me so blistering mad with your shitty hateful comments to every user on here that isn’t your little buddy..

Not trying to ruffle your feathers, But have you ever been in a fist fight?

 

[Ben Lamb]

What a complete crock of shit, and why it will never change in MT. Too many people with a very very low bar for satisfaction on what deer hunting could be like in MT.

I too often wonder why telling people that they're full of chit doesn't enable the changes I seek.

My eastern Montana family has done it for 4 generations, and I wish like hell it would change.

be the change you see to see, or some namby-pamby bs like that.

If you started in the middle of August with a 900 tag for deer and went to the end of October you'd still have a 10 or 11 week season.

Hunting the rut in places like the Custer, Bitter Creek Wilderness, Missouri Breaks, basically all of the stuff on the eastern side or even the western side is basically a slaughter. Not many NR willing to eat a 650 dollar buck tag if they got a last chance opportunity in front of them and too many residents get out for the Thanksgiving day massacre.

I would say it's safe to say there are plenty of management scenarios out there that are managing for trophy potential. They just don't word it that way.

There it is. Give them opportunity & better hunting and don't discount their traditions, regardless of the impact they have. FWP doesn't have to change to stay popular with deer hunters. We have to present this in a way that sells it to the guy who wants to be sure his kid shoots any deer he sees.

Although hunting deer in August seems, IDK, sweaty as hell.

 

[Ben Lamb]

When it's how your family has done it for the last 4 generations, there's more to it than just what dies. You're dealing with tradition & family memories. Both of those are a lot stronger emotions than age class of mule deer.

That’s nice, but when the mule deer herd can’t handle it it’s time for a change. People can experience those same warm memories in October.

Again, show me the data that says the herds can't handle it. That's what your regional Bio is going to say. It's what wildlife will say in Helena, and it's what the directors office and commission will say.

Prove your point, don't just yell it louder.

 

[EYJONAS!]

We have to present this in a way that sells it to the guy who wants to be sure his kid shoots any deer he sees.

Although hunting deer in August seems, IDK, sweaty as hell.

Anybody can go out in October and find a deer. May not be on a two track licking a does ass but just over the ridge.

August does seem hot as hell but sure would be damn fun I think.

There's just as much opportunity to find a good buck at that time as there is in November. Maybe not as easy. It'll separate the men from the boys...

I hope I'm not hurting your feelings someone told me I really need to work on that I guess.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Anybody can go out in October and find a deer. May not be on a two track licking a does ass but just over the ridge.

August does seem hot as hell but sure would be damn fun I think.

There's just as much opportunity to find a good buck at that time as there is in November. Maybe not as easy. It'll separate the men from the boys...

I hope I'm not hurting your feelings someone told me I really need to work on that I guess.

I've had death threats from some of the finest keyboard commandoes of the 20th century. You're a kitten.

The point here is to have people present their arguments in a way that will actually effect change, rather than just serve as fodder for a stitch & bitch thread on HT.

FWP will be engaging in a deer plan rewrite after the EMP is done. People have time to pull the data together, form the coalition & present a viable alternative to the current model. There is a golden opportunity here, but if it comes out angry & puffed up, then you'll run into the gigantic immovable wall of gov't complacency.

To put it philosophically: Be the steady drip of water on the wall you wish to erode.

Wax on

Wax off

 

[MTLabrador]

be the change you see to see, or some namby-pamby bs like that.

I might end up being a hypocrite and killing a mule deer in November. If I don’t do it myself, I won’t begrudge anyone who does. The reality is that unless season structures change, individual hunters deciding not to hunt won’t make any difference at all.

 

[TheJason]

The reason is because elk are more pronounced during the rut, and fewer in numbers, from what I remember. Ultimately, if you look at the FWP plan, it's because deer hunting is managed for hunter opportunity first, and is likely regarded as a resource that is abundant and in good stead, until there's a disease issue or the herd is below the metric set out in the plan. So part of it is biology, and part of it is "folks like it."

Sorry, but that logic for ek vs deer is lame if that’s the rationale. Cruising muley bucks are possibly the dumbest animal alive, save a cruising bighorn ram.

The real reason is the tradition of shooting bucks in the rut. It’s easy. How many hunters do you hear complain “the rut is late this year” as their rationale for not killing a deer yet?

How does FWP know the age structure is sufficient? Or is this a case of “prove it isn’t sufficient”?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Sorry, but that logic for ek vs deer is lame if that’s the rationale. Cruising muley bucks are possibly the dumbest animal alive, save a cruising bighorn ram.

The real reason is the tradition of shooting bucks in the rut. It’s easy. How many hunters do you hear complain “the rut is late this year” as their rationale for not killing a deer yet?

How does FWP know the age structure is sufficient? Or is this a case of “prove it isn’t sufficient”?

40 years ago, I'm sure that logic wasn't all that out of whack. 20 years ago too, for that matter. But, that's the mindset of a lot of agency folks, and that's what has to change before you get to the point when seasons are modified for different outcomes.

The reason I haven't killed an elk in a long time isn't because I'm a chitty elk hunter, it's because all them woofs ate them elk. Me & 10 of my best drinking buds all say the same thing.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I've had death threats from some of the finest keyboard commandoes of the 20th century. You're a kitten.

The point here is to have people present their arguments in a way that will actually effect change, rather than just serve as fodder for a stitch & bitch thread on HT.

FWP will be engaging in a deer plan rewrite after the EMP is done. People have time to pull the data together, form the coalition & present a viable alternative to the current model. There is a golden opportunity here, but if it comes out angry & puffed up, then you'll run into the gigantic immovable wall of gov't complacency.

To put it philosophically: Be the steady drip of water on the wall you wish to erode.

Wax on

Wax off

My "crucial conversations" course isn't showing through? I still that that tradition/memory argument is sooo dumb.

 

[Ben Lamb]

My "crucial conversations" course isn't showing through? I still that that tradition/memory argument is sooo dumb.

there are a lot of arguments that a re malarkey. That doesn't mean they're not effective in swaying the people who make the decisions.

Your malarkey just needs to be more refined than theirs.

 

[bigsky2]

I've had death threats from some of the finest keyboard commandoes of the 20th century. You're a kitten.

The point here is to have people present their arguments in a way that will actually effect change, rather than just serve as fodder for a stitch & bitch thread on HT.

FWP will be engaging in a deer plan rewrite after the EMP is done. People have time to pull the data together, form the coalition & present a viable alternative to the current model. There is a golden opportunity here, but if it comes out angry & puffed up, then you'll run into the gigantic immovable wall of gov't complacency.

To put it philosophically: Be the steady drip of water on the wall you wish to erode.

Wax on

Wax off

If this is true then I'm going to start writing to the commission, local biologist, and MDF right now. Not likely to change things, but I see no better time to try than now.

 

[antlerradar]

Again, show me the data that says the herds can't handle it. That's what your regional Bio is going to say. It's what wildlife will say in Helena, and it's what the directors office and commission will say.

Prove your point, don't just yell it louder.

The problem is how the data is collected. Take my home unit of 704. You combine the Custer with Diamond Cross and what was the old OW to the south and Coffee's to the north and all the important indicters of herd health look pretty good in 704. A Bio would not be lying of they said that the herd looks good in 704, but he wouldn't be telling the whole truth ether. I feel sorry for the poor out of state sucker that asks about 704 and hears that the buck/doe ratio is good and there is a strong age structure with a good number of older bucks. In for a shocker when you wake up opening morning on the Custer.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If this is true then I'm going to start writing to the commission, local biologist, and MDF right now. Not likely to change things, but I see no better time to try than now.

Last I talked to MDF, they were interested in putting more resources into MT. Good folks who do good work!

 

[Ben Lamb]

The problem is how the data is collected. Take my home unit of 704. You combine the Custer with Diamond Cross and what was the old OW to the south and Coffee's to the north and all the important indicters of herd health look pretty good in 704. A Bio would not be lying of they said that the herd looks good in 704, but he wouldn't be telling the whole truth ether. I feel sorry for the poor out of state sucker that ask about 704 and hears that the buck/doe ratio is good and there is a strong age structure with a good amount of older bucks. In for a shocker wake up opening morning on the Custer.

Would finer scale units not apply to this situation, as well as kick in restrictive hunting methods for the public land area (LE permits or reduced seasons & b tags).

This may he harder based on the memos about season setting changes.

 

[antlerradar]

Would finer scale units not apply to this situation, as well as kick in restrictive hunting methods for the public land area (LE permits or reduced seasons & b tags).

This may he harder based on the memos about season setting changes.

Yup, Looks like we a all in on going in the other direction though.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Yup, Looks like we a all in on going in the other direction though.

For now, but if you don't have a 5 year plan, then you default to today's thinking.

 

[Marshian]

I don’t have anything to add other than I’ve been meaning to donate to MDF and this thread has pushed me to do so.

 

[ZMT588]

You're a kitten.

I’m never letting this go @EYJONAS!