Montana mule deer

EYJONAS! said:
Even got a new avatar. Pretty much like buying a new truck in the internet world. Eventful day all around but some good conversation and laughs came from it.
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I’ll come out of the penalty box to help you when the mitts start flying.
 
Ben Lamb said:
When it's how your family has done it for the last 4 generations, there's more to it than just what dies. You're dealing with tradition & family memories. Both of those are a lot stronger emotions than age class of mule deer.
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For 48 years of my 50 years hunting in pa deer gun season it opened on the Monday after thanksgiving (tradition) two years ago they moved to the Saturday after thanksgiving (improve opportunity) that move created quite a bit push back. Pa game commission said it would be ok hunters would start new traditions. We also get 3 sundays to hunt big game. Nobody really likes change but if it benefits the resources I think the hunters of Montana would come around to support it
 
TheTone said:
Idaho has a few mule deer units with antler point restrictions. I’ve never seen any evidence with those areas being the spot to go for big bucks. One unit that used to have antler point restrictions has probably gotten better since they were done away with. I had some good talks with the warden for that area and he was run ragged during only a one week season following up on dead and left behind 3 points, restriction was 4 pt minimum on one side. He had a great story of his next door neighbor showing off a 3x4 that was shot at 400 plus yards. From what he told me the 4th point on the one side was about 1 1/2 inches long. No way the guy knew, he was just going to ground check it and that’s the wardens neighbor. He told me every year he knew of dead 3 pts on the hill that he just never had time to check out
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I have never deer hunted in Washington state but I know quite a few hunters over there and have followed some of the states game management. They have had a 3 point minimum on mule deer for a long time. Terrible results, I have been told there is tons of two points shot and left since you can actually count the brow tine if it is 1 inch. Other backfire has been genetically favoring giant 2 points that get old,and tall wide antlers and never really fork out beyond a 2 point. Based on what I have been told and read about washington the apr is a terrible idea for mule deer. I think its been ok to pretty good in some states with whitetails only. I guess my post is based on hearsay but the point restriction in washington sounds like a disaster also.
 
Trap said:
I have never deer hunted in Washington state but I know quite a few hunters over there and have followed some of the states game management. They have had a 3 point minimum on mule deer for a long time. Terrible results, I have been told there is tons of two points shot and left since you can actually count the brow tine if it is 1 inch. Other backfire has been genetically favoring giant 2 points that get old,and tall wide antlers and never really fork out beyond a 2 point. Based on what I have been told and read about washington the apr is a terrible idea for mule deer. I think its been ok to pretty good in some states with whitetails only. I guess my post is based on hearsay but the point restriction in washington sounds like a
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I think the difference is when WA implemented the 3 point minimum the buck:doe ratios were way out of whack and it was hard to find 3 point or bigger at all in a lot of places. The APR and shortened season helped keep more bucks and helped shift the age class. The more open parts of the state where escapement is lower you do get some mature 2 points dominating the breeding in some pockets, but not sure it's a wide spread problem because for the most part I do still see some 3 point and bigger coming out of these areas. Granted, most are relatively small because they don't last long once they get at least 3 points.

The masses in WA consistently say they want maximum opportunity, so for rifle an OTC basically state-wide 9 day season in mid Oct. with 3 point restriction is what we get. Very few late season special permits. I think without the 3 point minimum we'd be back to killing damn near every buck out there unless we were willing to limit hunters. Do I think we'd be better off with a more limited system all together that didn't have to rely on APRs? Yep, but based on years of public input in WA, not holding my breath. I like the idea of having 2 point or smaller special permits (maybe a good youth tag) in some areas where big 2 point genetics are prevalent, but the bios I've talked to didn't think it was much of an issue, so doubt we'll see that.

I think at this point MT could still correct their situation and not get to the point where the only way to keep all the bucks from getting shot is with APRs, probably just by limiting hunting during the rut really, and splitting the NR elk/deer combo up, or raise the price so you're not just getting a cheap buck tag when you buy a pricey elk tag.
 
antlerradar said:
Some have cited improvement with four point restrictions on whitetails, and wonder why you can not duplicate with mule deer. When people talk four point with whitetail they are counting the browtines. Not so in mule deer. A four point restriction on mule deer is more like having a five point restriction with whitetails. Think about what that would do to whitetail hunting and how many nice whitetails there are with fewer then five points.
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I am interested in the way Arkansas is doing some of their "legal buck" classifications on some pieces of public. One of the public places I am concentrating on this season has a 14" inside spread or 15" mainbeam restriction.

Anyway, once I started educating myself and did some research it became pretty clear that APR's are not a good tool for mule deer. I am not convinced that they are all that great for whitetails either for some of the same reasons. I think with just 4 point restrictions or just inside spread restrictions with whitetails a lot of 2 year olds with a ton of potential are getting shot and a lot of 4 and 5 year old basket racked eastern count 5 and 6 points are being left in the herd.

Making aging deer a part of hunter education seems like a good idea to me.
 
Shangobango said:
I am interested in the way Arkansas is doing some of their "legal buck" classifications on some pieces of public. One of the public places I am concentrating on this season has a 14" inside spread or 15" mainbeam restriction.

Anyway, once I started educating myself and did some research it became pretty clear that APR's are not a good tool for mule deer. I am not convinced that they are all that great for whitetails either for some of the same reasons. I think with just 4 point restrictions or just inside spread restrictions with whitetails a lot of 2 year olds with a ton of potential are getting shot and a lot of 4 and 5 year old basket racked eastern count 5 and 6 points are being left in the herd.

Making aging deer a part of hunter education seems like a good idea to me.
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Couldn't agree more
 
This thread is the epitome of the solutions and problems of wildlife management.

Ya’ll just need to elect me as guvner and I will instruct FWP to get us some more opportunities at slammer bux.

@Schaaf, I’d like to place an order for another custom bumper sticker please.
 
I know there’s no way Montana goes to a complete draw system for mule deer unless population REALLY tanks but a great compromise for me would be to go general deer October 1st- October 31 and then do a mule deer draw for a Nov 1st to thanksgiving weekend 1st choice only. I think keeping whitetail same as it is now wouldn’t put a huge hurt on them as they aren’t near as dumb as a young mule deer buck chasing tail.

Same scenario but do rifle draw first choice only November 1st-November 15th. Muzzleloader draw Nov 15-Dec 1
 
brockel said:
I know there’s no way Montana goes to a complete draw system for mule deer unless population REALLY tanks but a great compromise for me would be to go general deer October 1st- October 31 and then do a mule deer draw for a Nov 1st to thanksgiving weekend 1st choice only. I think keeping whitetail same as it is now wouldn’t put a huge hurt on them as they aren’t near as dumb as a young mule deer buck chasing tail.

Same scenario but do rifle draw first choice only November 1st-November 15th. Muzzleloader draw Nov 15-Dec 1
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Frankly Whitetail and Mule deer should be two seperate tags. They are two different species after all.

I'm sure ill get lynched for this idea but here goes. How about keep whitetails general and OTC while mule deer is a draw only. If you dont draw your mule deer permit that year go hunt whitetail OTC.

That idea is if they do indeed make all units General.
 
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