8andcounting
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2013
- Messages
- 3,345
Right . Exactly , and I don’t see that in the near future .The problem is fwp doesn’t see a problem. The only way they will is if there is leftover tags
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Right . Exactly , and I don’t see that in the near future .The problem is fwp doesn’t see a problem. The only way they will is if there is leftover tags
My take away from this is you are obviously for 525 and who would you vote for because that line is getting really old. Not a single politician is where they are because the primary goal is to help our wildlife.Manning Rushton: Non-residents harvest more mule deer bucks than residents in NE Montana
When it comes to hunter crowding and the state of mule deer, non-resident hunting pressure and harvests aren’t the only culprits, but mounting evidence shows they’re a big one.helenair.com
When it comes to hunter crowding and the state of mule deer, non-resident hunting pressure and harvests aren’t the only culprits, but mounting evidence shows they’re a big one.
According to an FWP Interoffice Memorandum dated 5/6/2024, the “total Region 6 mule deer harvest in 2023 was estimated at 9,986, 28% above the 26-year average” and — for the first time ever - non-residents harvested more antlered mule deer than Montana residents in Region 6.
The memo added that “antlerless harvest in 2023 was 35% above the 26-year average, with resident hunters making up 54% of the antlerless mule deer harvest.” So a pile of does are being killed by hunters too, and nearly half of them (46%) by non-residents.
A Commission-led change due to declining mule deer trajectories now prohibits the hunting of antlerless mule deer on public lands in Regions 6 and 7. This will likely decrease antlerless harvests in 2024, but the impacts this will have on the resident vs. non-resident harvest ratio and hunting pressure remains to be seen, and many are concerned that the change will actually increase the harvest of mule deer bucks, further reducing the buck-to-doe ratio.
When other solutions for these issues — like Sen. Flowers’ (D-Bozeman) SB 525 which sought to require that the Commission place meaningful caps on all non-resident hunting licenses — have been brought forward, outfitters, legislators, and even members of Montana’s DIY hunting community argued that the issue isn’t necessarily about the number of hunters or the number of licenses, but rather about hunter effort and the number of days hunters are spending afield.
But the Region 6 memo seems to put those perceptions to rest.
"Region 6 has seen a fairly constant number of resident hunters over the last decade but more notable is the large increase in non-resident hunters during the same time period (Table 1, Figure 6). Resident hunters have remained mostly stable from 2013 to 2023, while non-resident hunter numbers have almost doubled, with 96% more hunters in 2023 compared to 2013.”
“Similar patterns can be observed in hunter days across the region,” the memo continues. “The number of hunter days in 2023 was 33% higher than what was estimated in 2013 but largely correlates to the increase in hunters across the region. The number of days per hunter has remained fairly stable over the reported period for both resident and non-resident hunters."
In other words, the increase in non-resident hunters and the uptick of licenses available appear to be major factors in the increase in harvests and decrease in mule deer populations. Drought is also a significant contributor, but is largely out of our control.
Is it time to reconsider a bill like Sen. Flowers’ SB 525? Do we need to split up non-resident general deer and elk tags into the seven regions with each having their own cap determined by opportunity, public access, herd population and health? (Wyoming implemented something similar this year for their non-resident general elk tags). Should the legislature and Governor Gianforte stop with the outfitter, landowner and non-resident giveaways and guarantees? For years, we’ve heard that ideas like these are nothing more than solutions looking for a problem, but it seems that if there’s one thing Montanans can agree on, it’s that we certainly have a problem.
So what are we going to do about it? Who will now be asked to sacrifice their hunting opportunities?
Those remain the questions, and if Montanans don’t start paying attention and voting for candidates who will protect the resource and stick up for resident hunters, we may not like the answers.
If you have been paying any attention on here the last year and a half you would know that I helped craft 525 and was deeply disappointed when it was spite killed not on its merits, but because of BHA's opposition to giving wealthy nonresident landowners tags. So yes, I am "obviously" for it.My take away from this is you are obviously for 525 and who would you vote for because that line is getting really old. Not a single politician is where they are because the primary goal is to help our wildlife.
Still didn’t tell me who to vote forIf you have been paying any attention on here the last year and a half you would know that I helped craft 525 and was deeply disappointed when it was spite killed not on its merits, but because of BHA's opposition to giving wealthy nonresident landowners tags. So yes, I am "obviously" for it.
However, I copy/pasted the text of the article to get around the paywall, so just an FYI, Manning Rushton wrote this one, not me. And the bigger issue I am flagging here is NRs out-harvesting Rs.
Manning's article poses the question, but I'm not really arguing for anything. If someone else wants to carry a bill to that effect, I'd weigh it carefully and certainly be interested.@Elky Welky are you saying there should be an additional bill this coming session for regionally distributing NR hunters? The final amendments for 525 excluded the Big Game Combo, Deer Combo, and Deer sponsored licenses from the goals of the bill IMO.
why.... would... the mule deer foundation be for stopping this...?
No need to relitigate this. If someone else wants to carry a bill like 525, I will support it and I'm hopeful. I've PMd you.I never opposed 525. From the get go I thought it was a good intentioned bill with some flaws and my emails with legislators voiced my support for the idea.
The reaction you guys had to other groups opposing on their own merits and that most were never a part of the coalition is completely delusional.
It's that 10% language in subsection 2 that got people really confused and tied up in knots. The language crossed out above it does the exact same thing (and is still current law) and applies only to special drawings, which has always been the case. The bill was drafted to conform with the existing program, which is why that section was rewritten. People thought that was something new, however, even though it didn't change anything.
however, there is now demonstrable evidence that NR pressure is part of the problem.
My personal opinion (emphasis: I'm not speaking for any group or org), agrees with what you propose here, and I think the mule deer proposal on the other thread is a more dramatic version of this. I'm not entirely sold on it because of how much it effects other species and seasons, but these ideas seem to be the direction things are going.Thanks Elky- the wording in the actual draft is very confusing. The preference points for birds was misguided in my opinion and likely brought unneeded critics to the party, but that’s off topic.
To bring back to the threads intent, I think these four things would make for a huge improvement:
1. NR pick-a-region.
2. Stick to the NR cap. Eliminate the add-one (come home to hunt, etc).
3. 10/1-10/31 mule deer rifle season.
4. No antlerless mule deer statewide on public for a few years.
There is a fifth that would address a lot of landowner/outfitter concerns, but that’s perhaps better discussed down the line.