It’s not hard to put the resource first. Kind of mind boggling how we go round and round and nothing changes. The fact that many good ideas get shot down off the “budget” or where is the funding going to come from is frustrating as well. Or my favorite the social side of wildlife management with a biased mtfwp mule deer survey and we have to manage for what hunters want. Burn it down I already got mine. I sound like shed god I better stop.
Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement
- Thread starter rogerthat
- Start date
cgasner1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2016
- Messages
- 3,119
I know I mentioned it a few times prior to our meeting when this was put together that I’d be willing to sit down with anyone and talk. That offer still stands if someone wants to sit down over a beer in Billings. Im happy to have a conversation.
Elky Welky
Well-known member
I agree wholeheartedly, and even when we were advocating for 525 we made it clear that it needed to be in conjunction with habitat improvement, CWD mitigation, etc. We shouldn't emphasize one problem over the others. Part of the issue with trying to address crowding, however, is that it becomes really divisive really fast when NRs become part of that equation, and ends up sucking up alot of the conversation.
It makes sense why some prominent influencers have started to turn their attention to herd growth and habitat improvement and want to ignore the crowding issues altogether. It's politically expedient and makes everyone feel good.
But you can have the best feed, bedding areas, water, cover, etc. in the world on public land, and if there are too many two legged predators on the landscape then sitting around and singing kumbaya about habitat isn't going to make a lick of difference, and the growing herds will just cause more problems on private.
I'm still game to buy any of you a round of drinks when you guys are around Helena. Or even Lewistown, I'm there fairly often. Billings I avoid like Bozeman.
cgasner1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2016
- Messages
- 3,119
A few of us got together last night but If I’m ever up in your neck of the woods would be all for it
Let me know when you make it over to Lewistown sometime.
From the spring count overview email
Southwest Montana - Region 3
Deer
What we saw: Overall, mule deer populations exhibit regional variability, with some areas showing declines and poor recruitment due to harsh winter conditions, while others demonstrate robust populations and good fawn survival due to mild winters and favorable conditions. Observed deer were in good body condition, suggesting a healthy population outlook. There was one primary exception – an aerial survey of mule deer in HD 380 (Elkhorns) revealed a concerning decline in observed numbers. There was a 29 percent decrease from last year and 59 percent below the long-term spring average.
What we did: Proposed a reduction in the HD 380-02 mule deer B license from 100 to 75.
To paraphrase: It was a harsh/mild winter. Some deer lived and some didn't. Also we responded to a "concerning" 59% below average herd count with a 25% decrease in doe tags that is unlikely to correct the situation. SMH
Southwest Montana - Region 3
Deer
What we saw: Overall, mule deer populations exhibit regional variability, with some areas showing declines and poor recruitment due to harsh winter conditions, while others demonstrate robust populations and good fawn survival due to mild winters and favorable conditions. Observed deer were in good body condition, suggesting a healthy population outlook. There was one primary exception – an aerial survey of mule deer in HD 380 (Elkhorns) revealed a concerning decline in observed numbers. There was a 29 percent decrease from last year and 59 percent below the long-term spring average.
What we did: Proposed a reduction in the HD 380-02 mule deer B license from 100 to 75.
To paraphrase: It was a harsh/mild winter. Some deer lived and some didn't. Also we responded to a "concerning" 59% below average herd count with a 25% decrease in doe tags that is unlikely to correct the situation. SMH
Elky Welky
Well-known member
Interesting. They issue 950 mule deer buck tags in 380, and that tag must be used in that district. I grew up in the NE edge of 380, and though we had many mule deer around, no buck made it over 2 years. There's no quota on does shot with a bow, and I know 380 is hit pretty hard by bowhunters looking for cow elk. It would be interesting to know what the archery doe harvest looks like in 380.
My parents still live there, and they have started seeing far more whitetails move in to the area.
@Nameless Range, this is your neck of the woods; any thoughts?
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
gentlemen - please brush up on your con temporary science. that, and think of the kids.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
Yeah, 380's Buck permit quota is kind of a joke, but the range isn't managed for mule deer. Aside from the southern portion and the subdivisions within it, it really isn't a place where good mule deer populations live. Any reduction in MD B permits is a good thing in my mind, though none would probably be better.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
They cut 25 tags? Holy f*ck! How will the people of Montana ever survive these drastic changes?!? What a joke. The herd is 60% below average and we cut 25 tags to help them out….i don’t even know what to say anymore.
We have another thread discussing changes to season dates, pick your species/region, and other limiting factors. This response from FWP should be all anyone needs to see.FWP isn’t going to make any changes that have meaningful impacts. It makes a guy wonder why they put together advisory committees. Is it just to check a box?
Carnage2011
Well-known member
The southern half of the unit could support significantly more deer than it does right now. The north end sucks for habitat, mainly due to re-gen taking over. However, from dry creek to the interstate there is plenty of habitat.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
I have repeatedly watched bios try to cut both elk and deer permits in different areas I am familiar with including the Elkhorns, only to have their proposals questioned and tempered by their leadership.
I was doing some work for a rancher by Boulder in 380 many years ago, and he had a deer antler nailed to his tack shed that was probably half of a 180" buck. I asked him about it and he said something like, "Oh yeah, in the 50s and 60s those things were all over the place." It certainly isn't the range that is the problem and private land combined with the difficulty of access to the Black Sage WSA is probably one of the few things that allows any bucks to get older than a toddler in that area.
It’s to show the public “see we care”
ismith
Well-known member
Trophy districts??? How about districts with mature bucks breeding does?
ismith
Well-known member
$36.97 per pound beef? Some stage competition at Teasers would be healthy.........
Schaaf
Well-known member
Schaaf
Well-known member
Time to put up or shut up about this blonde from Beaverhead County hoss
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
i’m having curiosities of Shed God as a wing man decades ago. coulda shoulda woulda
Smart woman. mtmuley
