Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[Forkyfinder]

Watch $1,000 for a NR mule deer tag before you know it

too cheap

 

[mtmuley]

I still am reading so much emphasis in R6 and R7. There's a whole lot of Montana that isn't out there. That's why I think it might need to be looked at region by region, or even unit by unit. mtmuley

 

[cgasner1]

I still am reading so much emphasis in R6 and R7. There's a whole lot of Montana that isn't out there. That's why I think it might need to be looked at region by region, or even unit by unit. mtmuley

Part of the goal of this should be the hunting improves enough people don’t want to travel to 6-7 but would rather hunt closer to home

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

It will take non resident tags going unsold before fwp makes any major changes. And that’s not happening anytime soon

Or legislation that requires FWP to hold to mandated caps, eliminate carve outs, and set caps on NR unlimited opportunities

R6 reports show resident hunter numbers have remained relatively steady since 2013, while NR numbers have doubled over that time period. I'm suspect this is common across the state.

If the goal is to specifically address mule deer numbers, place reasonable limits on NRs, put 3 year moratorium on killing does where needed, limit MD hunt during the rut, and leave current elk / whitetail seasons alone.

 

[mtmuley]

Part of the goal of this should be the hunting improves enough people don’t want to travel to 6-7 but would rather hunt closer to home

Understood. But I know a lot of people where I am that have never hunted those Regions for deer and probably never will. It's not a thing that can be solved statewide with the same proposals. mtmuley

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

Part of the goal of this should be the hunting improves enough people don’t want to travel to 6-7 but would rather hunt closer to home

I hunt where elk have outcompeted MD. We had way more MD 20 years ago and not nearly as many elk. Now it's the opposite. Your MD proposal would limit elk opportunity and may make the MD situation worse.... so if I want to hunt MD I'll be heading to R6/7

 

[The Hedgehog]

Your MD proposal would limit elk opportunity

Explain how it would "limit" elk opportunity. How many months do people need to hunt elk before they consider it "limited"?

 

[Rie Bread]

I

I hunt where elk have outcompeted MD. We had way more MD 20 years ago and not nearly as many elk. Now it's the opposite. Your MD proposal would limit elk opportunity and may make the MD situation worse.... so if I want to hunt MD I'll be heading to R6/7

Ima do my part and increase the number of resident hunters in region 6/7 this fall!

 

[bigsky2]

Explain how it would "limit" elk opportunity. How many months do people need to hunt elk before they consider it "limited"?

Anything less than six months is limited!

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

Explain how it would "limit" elk opportunity. How many months do people need to hunt elk before they consider it "limited"?

Let's see, their proposal shortens and moves archery and general season. That is a limitation from the current season structure. Less time too kill elk/less ideal time to kill elk = less elk killed. Killing fewer elk in my area could further harm mule deer population.

Isn't your goal to address mule deer population statewide? If so, that proposal could have a negative effect in certain areas. mtmuley said it perfectly "It's not a thing that can be solved statewide with the same proposals."

But none of this should matter because changes to the current seasons are not necessary to achieving the goal of improving mule deer herd. Use time-tested tools to achieve goals on mule deer and leave the seasons as they are. It feels to me like we're overthinking the solution to the problem. A three year moratorium on mule deer does would be huge to help the population.

 

[Carnage2011]

I agree, Montana certainly could be better. What you perceive as tiny change may seem like large change to others. Supportive data showing the need for a certain change and forecasting potential outcome can help bridge that gap. Personally, I would look at limit NRs before accepting generational loss of hunting opportunities for residents. I don't think that is a radical position.

You guys constantly bitch about NR’s. I agree that they are absolutely a problem right now but there are 187,000 resident big game hunters in MT. That’s why there needs to be change. Moving the season to October isn’t a generational loss of hunting opportunity.

 

[Forkyfinder]

@John B. Sullivan III I agree with a large part of the proposal - however if you and @Shed God want to write a differing proposal and send it - I'd gladly help.

Ultimately - @The Hedgehog is probably right. not much happens. But at least if there were multiple proposals - FWP might see that people do think changes are required.

I dont think theres much use in trying to imagine and "what if" what would happen if this was implemented. We have garbage data on the input side (pop and harvest estimates) and havent had a season change in forever - people either find concerns or benefits, depending if you are optimistic or pessimistic regarding the specific changes.

I dont really care what gets done - but mule deer need some kind of relief. And thats coming from someone that will probably never hunt mule deer on public land again (cause i have good access somewhere) and only benefits from a rut hunt.

I witnessed an extinction in 410 over several years and dont want to watch another one.

 

[The Hedgehog]

@John B. Sullivan III what group are you a “Chair” for? Sniveling Bitches & Handicapped Hunters of Montana United?

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

@John B. Sullivan III I agree with a large part of the proposal - however if you and @Shed God want to write a differing proposal and send it - I'd gladly help.

Ultimately - @The Hedgehog is probably right. not much happens. But at least if there were multiple proposals - FWP might see that people do think changes are required.

I dont think theres much use in trying to imagine and "what if" what would happen if this was implemented. We have garbage data on the input side (pop and harvest estimates) and havent had a season change in forever - people either find concerns or benefits, depending if you are optimistic or pessimistic regarding the specific changes.

I dont really care what gets done - but mule deer need some kind of relief. And thats coming from someone that will probably never hunt mule deer on public land again (cause i have good access somewhere) and only benefits from a rut hunt.

I witnessed an extinction in 410 over several years and dont want to watch another one.

I appreciate the gesture. I'm not opposed to making necessary changes, however some of the proposals thrown out feel like nuclear options to me. In my opinion there are less extreme options to try at first. I agree 100% that we need better data. I'd hate to see us make large scale statewide changes without the data to support it. I really don't think my position is as extreme as some are making it out to be.

I believe these are solvable problems and I'm happy to discuss anytime off line.

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

@John B. Sullivan III what group are you a “Chair” for? Sniveling Bitches & Handicapped Hunters of Montana United?

Goddammit Hedgehog, you don't need to use the quotations around Chair.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I appreciate the gesture. I'm not opposed to making necessary changes, however some of the proposals thrown out feel like nuclear options to me.
[/QUOTE
Montana hunters have no problem accepting complete LE for everything except deer, elk, black bears and turkeys because they know the resource can’t handle OTC general hunting with long seasons.

Does it feel “nuclear” because it’s not going to benefit the resource and distribute pressure or because you’re entrenched into an entitlement “opportunity” mentality?

“Opportunity” seems to be cocaine Lite for MT hunters

 

[cgasner1]

I have never been part of a group or organization. The only one that really interested me was the single moms club.

He didn’t go for milk and isn’t coming back sorry bud

 

[DFS]

To fix a problem mtfwp would have to admit there is a problem. Maybe the harvest stats of region 6 and 7 will slap them in the face and wake them up. Pick your region and nonresident caps are key to any successful plan. Call me radical.

 

[BuzzH]

I don't know anyone that would choose whitey over muley. That does not have private land access.

I'm your huckleberry...

 

[Sioux33]

With the talk of throwing out additional proposals, I’ve thrown this out already, but figure I’ll try it again, see below. It basically combines ND and CO, two awesome deer states. Has some LE and opportunity, keeps the muley/WT split and doesn’t add any stress to landowners. I’d also say it reduces opportunity while the other proposal increases opportunity and puts more hunters at the same trailheads at the same time.

9/1-10/10: archery season. This gets you the buy-in from the bowhunters. They lose a week from the current season, but nobody really cares about that last week anyway so you keep them happy by giving them the first 10 days of October.

10/11-10/23ish: dead period on public land and OTC cow/doe tags on private. This attempts to redistribute the animals back onto public for the upcoming rifle opener. Hopefully this will allow some folks to fill their tags and freezers and keep them off the public later in the season.

10/24ish-11/8-10ish: general rifle season. Yes, the season bleeds into November, but it's a compromise to the rifle hunters and keeps the circus out of the heart of the rut. Hopefully the animals have settled down on public compared to a 31 day deer rifle season pushing them onto private. To make it even better for the resource, deer is a pick your species/pick your weapon model. If you choose mule deer, this is your season, it ends on Nov 10th or so. That is unless you draw one of the 50-100 LE permits that goes till Thanksgiving. This allows you to get a rut hunt every 5-10 years or so and is similar to what CO does, which most folks agree is the best MD state in the west. If you pick whitetails, you can rifle hunt till Thanksgiving. If you pick archery, you hunt either species till Thanksgiving. That has to have some attraction or else nobody will pick it. The deer seasons coincide with elk season to keep even more pressure off the deer. For a rifle hunter, you have a fraction of the pressure on MD with the opportunity to luck out and hunt the rut. For a bow hunter, you get to keep hunting in November, but you just made the draw odds a lot better for the rifle guys.