Montana mule deer Expectations.

[huntin24/7]

Good thing this giant made it through the season. Check out the walnut trash on his G1. Guess I shouldn’t be so quick to say he’s made it. Think there’s still some cwd killing going on.
#trashymontanamuley
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That’s a mature buck. “He’s just going downhill”.

 

[brockel]

That’s a mature buck. “He’s just going downhill”.

Good meat buck

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Good thing this giant made it through the season. Check out the walnut trash on his G1. Guess I shouldn’t be so quick to say he’s made it. Think there’s still some cwd killing going on.
#trashymontanamuley
View attachment 212490

Big ones always shed early

 

[brocksw]

Mule deer are delicious. This is an atrocity.

Instead of guessing or speculating what well managed herd looks like. I just sent an email off to Dr. Monteith to get his take on age structure within a mule deer herd. He's more qualified than anyone on this thread in terms of credentials.


"Thank you for the response, Kevin. I have another question regarding Mule deer that is a hot topic on the hunttalk.com forum. Many Montana residents are critical of the MT FWP's management of mule deer and their liberal season and tag structure. Concerns raised are anything from shooting too many does. Shooting too many small bucks, not letting bucks mature, not seeing enough big bucks, etc.

What is the biological preference? Based on things I've heard you say, my assumption is that there is a benefit to having mature mule deer does on the landscape. They pass on the knowledge to offspring; I would assume that holds true even in populations that don't migrate in the more popular sense that we hear about (Wyoming's Migrations). But is there also a benefit to having mature bucks in a population? What is that ratio? What is that benefit? Is there an optimal management style (tag and season structure) to succeed if that is one's goal?"

Dr. Monteith got back to me today. His response to my question (above) is below.

"Hi Brock,
All solid questions, and to be honest, most comes down to societal desires perhaps.

Female harvest, as controversial as it may be in some places, can do good things for populations by reducing density and reducing competition for forage. Sure, as you note, having females be present to teach their offspring potentially how and where to migrate etc., can be important. So, how harvest occurs or is executed probably should play into that biology.

As to adult males, it really all depends. Reality is, it takes few males to maintain pregnancy rates in populations. So, from that biological aspect, it doesn’t matter too much. Having adult males present may reduce some of the rut-related costs in young males and females because adult males may harass less (note, jury still out on how much that matters), and adult males may serve some role in priming estrus of females. Often, desires to maintain mature age structure of males is driven by stakeholder desires, and yes, there can be some benefits to populations perhaps but generally at the same time, even few and mostly young males can serve their primary biological role. Point is, there really isn’t a magical number, if that makes sense?

Hope that helps just a little?

Best,

Kevin"

 

[isu22andy]

We shot these in eastern Montana in 2019 . Obviously one shouldn’t of been shot , but are these considered disappointing for the non res guys ? Not bragging , talking trash or ect - I’m just curious . For a couple non resident guys we were pumped . But later we thought maybe these were like 120 inch whitetail equivalent to them . Maybe we got lucky too ??

 

[MTLabrador]

We shot these in eastern Montana in 2019 . Obviously one shouldn’t of been shot , but are these considered disappointing for the non res guys ? Not bragging , talking trash or ect - I’m just curious . For a couple non resident guys we were pumped . But later we thought maybe these were like 120 inch whitetail equivalent to them . Maybe we got lucky too ??

I like that buck on the left a lot, but I always like mass.

 

[isu22andy]

I like that buck on the left a lot, but I always like mass.

Thank you. I shot him at 280 yards when it was -14 . I was pretty happy with him for a diy hunt but I’m curious if that’s just a 3 year old in Montana . Whitetail are from family farm in Iowa .

 

[MTLabrador]

Thank you. I shot him at 280 yards when it was -14 . I was pretty happy with him for a diy hunt but I’m curious if that’s just a 3 year old in Montana . Whitetail are from family farm in Iowa .

I’d guess 4.5, but it’s really just a wild guess looking at the antlers and not actually aging him. He’s a nice buck regardless.

 

[antlerradar]

Thank you. I shot him at 280 yards when it was -14 . I was pretty happy with him for a diy hunt but I’m curious if that’s just a 3 year old in Montana . Whitetail are from family farm in Iowa .

Hard to say, could be three and he would have gotten a lot bigger or he could be eight and that is the best set of antlers he ever grew.

 

[DFS]

We shot these in eastern Montana in 2019 . Obviously one shouldn’t of been shot , but are these considered disappointing for the non res guys ? Not bragging , talking trash or ect - I’m just curious . For a couple non resident guys we were pumped . But later we thought maybe these were like 120 inch whitetail equivalent to them . Maybe we got lucky too ??

Very nice buck. Rut hunts are hard to come by in most states and there is a reason for that. In Montana we do it every year statewide. I suspect that your experience would have been just as fun in October.

 

[Unlucky]

Age class is king. Just like humans how many 7 footers are there. Think u did well for whitetail hunters. Which, Private or public u hunted. Gonna go out on a limb, your next trip, u wont do as well.

 

[Unlucky]

Talked to a guy from wyoming today and he said the open units otc, just like montana. But limited entry units, hard draw some very big deer there. Hm not rocket science

 

[MTLabrador]

Talked to a guy from wyoming today and he said the open units otc, just like montana. But limited entry units, hard draw some very big deer there. Hm not rocket science

Bruh… What? Some of the best mule deer hunting in Wyoming is in areas that are over the counter for residents. They’re just not over the counter during the rut.

 

[Unlucky]

Yes agree october otc lets em grow up. Wish montana was general otc, october. But limited is king. My opionon, hardest animal in north America to kill is a mature mule deer buck in october.

 

[Unlucky]

I assume he meant this. I should of brought crayons to this debate.

 

[brocksw]

I assume he meant this. I should of brought crayons to this debate.

Varies by unit. There's a breakdown on the WY game and fish website. Most of the "good units" for Mule deer close beginning of October. Many of the units that are open until the end of November are whitetail units.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Regulations/Regulation-PDFs/REGULATIONS_CH6&ved=2ahUKEwjGg9bpyYn2AhXPk4kEHZXFBtAQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0miYeQeAl1aisR68DKv6Jc

 

[Nick87]

I assume he meant this. I should of brought crayons to this debate.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

 

[Unlucky]

The guy was comparing his general mule deer unit to the quality of montana.

 

[brocksw]

The guy was comparing his general mule deer unit to the quality of montana.

Wyoming gives out like 40k resident buck tags, including whitetails. MT is waaaaaaay higher.

 

[rogerthat]

The key point is timing. Wyoming general season hunts happen in late september and october. Way different than a november general season hunt. I can not stress this point enough.