Montana Elk Management Survey Results
- Thread starter Elky Welky
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SAJ-99
Well-known member
With the studies on collared elk done in other states coming in and showing how fast elk respond to pressure, I am not even sure that an irrigated alfalfa pivot on public is going to get it done. I am not saying don't try, but habitat is a "solution" people embrace easily because it doesn't require any sacrifice to the main desire which is opportunity. My initial reaction is hunters need to understand that they are the pressure, but I think it is known. It is why the public comments usually involve getting access to private.
Except the fed is tasked with doing the same per pervious legislation.
Nice dodge. You wouldn’t have to look too hard to find my thoughts and comments about what is broken and what should change to improve elk hunting in MT.
Are you satisfied?
Elky Welky
Well-known member
If you look to the survey, only 27% of us are unsatisfied with elk management in MT, but here is the primary concern:
Distribution: too many elk on private land, not enough on public. Who is responsible for that fact is it's own area of debate. But no matter what, elk know where those boundaries are and find sanctuaries on private land. Public land is less habitable for a variety of reasons: habitat, hunter pressure, carnivores, snow depth, etc.
Because of private landowner concerns with elk populations, FWP has extended shoulder seasons out extensively, which only adds more pressure. For a few reasons, but a notable one being hunter behavior (we aren't innocent here), less land has been enrolled in Block Management the last ten years. Whereas hunter numbers have skyrocketed. More hunters, less huntable land, more pressured and inaccessible animals over longer periods of time, compounding the issues (real or perceived) by all parties.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
This is an area that can be adjusted. I am fully in favor of cutting NR tags, but as Ben points out, they pay the bills. I just don't know how R hunters get positive results without sacrificing something, either opportunity or money. Like everything in life, it is about the tradeoffs.
Stone_Ice_1
Well-known member
I can't say I am unsatisfied with the elk hunting in Montana. There are things that could be improved upon. While there are certainly problems with elk being concentrated on the private versus public land, there are plenty of elk out there and way more than there was when I was a kid growing up in Montana. Where I grew up it made the news when I was a kid if somebody got a bull elk nearby. But if a guy is willing to put in the work on public land, the elk are around and it is attainable every year.
Mule deer on the other hand I am very unsatisfied with. I can't say that if you put in the work on public land that you will be able to find a mature mule deer buck every year.
Mule deer on the other hand I am very unsatisfied with. I can't say that if you put in the work on public land that you will be able to find a mature mule deer buck every year.
I wouldn't have to look too hard to find your thoughts and comments on anything...
I kill nice bulls every year in archery with a general tag on public land, and it's not because I'm a phenominal hunter. So if that says anything about elk numbers.
I agree, and it can be frustrating, that there are a large amount of elk that spend time on private land during season. I'm not sure what I would propose to solve that issue, its a tricky one. But if you are one of the ones that say "ALL the elk go to private" you're lazy and not spending enough time out of your pickup because there are still many, many elk that are on huntable, public ground.
If I were king for a day and could change some things pertaining to montana elk hunting, those things would be related to actively managing wolf predation and significant non-resident price hikes.
Elky Welky
Well-known member
I agree, this is a place where there are solutions, but it would require tightening the belt (as Ben and I have debated on here before), and residents stepping up and paying more for their tags.
Cut the tags by half, raise the price by X2. I'm betting it would still net more than the current revenue.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I think FWP could do a survey of R elk hunters and ask about about support for eliminating all LE permits and making them general and it would get over 60% support.
Elky Welky
Well-known member
I also think so many of these issues, elk and mule deer, are regional and worth thinking about at a regional level. Ask someone in Kalispell if there are too many elk, and they will look at you like you are insane. But around Lewistown, where Texas billionaires are hoarding the herds, you have the exact opposite problem.
Tell someone in Roundup that there aren't enough mule deer in the world, and they will laugh you out of town. But if you go to Miles City and say there are plenty of mule deer, you will get lynched by some descendant of Stuart's Stranglers.
FWP has to somehow manage these critters both statewide and at the regional level. It's not an enviable task.
Is that just a montana thing? Idaho has been putting it in management plans for decades and FS habitat projects in the Clearwater backcountry are still next to nothing and elk pops continue to be garbage with no sign of ever improving
Im glad you could find my thoughts, and I’m glad you have success.
No, I don’t think “all elk go to private”. I’m also not lazy. I also remember the potential for what elk hunting in Montana can be. Appears you may be a victim of shifting baselines.
Everything is fine. Nothing to see here folks, move along.
rogerthat
Well-known member
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Have you ever hunted Wyoming general? How many days are you hunting on average per year? You may not be a phenomenal hunter but if your taking a nice bull on montana general than your success is phenomenal
You wouldn't. You'd essentially be revenue neutral. You'd also likely not sell out, so you could realistically expect a drop in revenue.
NR Antlerless harvest is the largest growth sector for NR's in elk hunting. Moving antlerless harvest to permit on public land helps greatly in terms of dealing with the mass influx of NR hunters and it has the least amount of revenue hit to it. Similarly, when you look at deer licenses, the biggest growth has been in the orphaned deer license and antlerless. FWP is statutorily mandated to sell the orphaned deer licenses (about 7K new B11 combos come from that) but they have taken steps this year to greatly reduce the NR antlerless harvest (and resident too).
The issue relative to elk management is that we've seen a large increase in hunter days and hunters in general (NR & R hunter numbers for deer & elk have both grown), and a decrease in hunter success, which has led to a lot of policy decisions that have further exacerbated the issue of problematic distribution of elk, making those animals unavailable for harvest.
It's awesome that you find a bull every year and I celebrate your success. But you are one of the few. MT success rates for bull elk are currently about 13% and falling, and that number itself can be deceiving as the average number of days it takes to harvest a bull are increasing. Your success is not common. Meanwhile, we are seeing larger distribution issues across the state when it comes to elk leaving public land during archery seasons and concentrating where they know they are safe. This is leading to the increase in herd size and the problems associated with large concentrations of animals that are unavailable to the public hunter.
it's all federal lands. The funding is often times dependent on matches from the state.
1. nope
2. not that many
3. I realize that. I am not arguing that Montana elk hunting is sub par. I am arguing that montana elk hunting is very good. I guess what I am saying is I am confused why others are not able to find critters to shoot, and from my experience when observing friends and family, it boils down to effort exerted. People think it should be easy and when its not they whine and complain instead of putting forth some more effort.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
I can tell you that it's easier to "find" elk in WA than MT. There are large, VERY LARGE swaths of MT that should have elk but apparently don't. Mostly in NW region. I, similar to others, thought MT was still pretty good, at least when you did see one you could shoot it (not true in WA), then I hunted ID and thought "holy cow, this is elk hunting valhalla, it can't get better than this!". Then I went to WY, and it turns out you can get better, a lot better.
