Montana Corner Crossing Updated?

[YoungGun]

It's basically the offseason, which means when the snow shovels come out, the Corner Crossing machine gets fired up as well.
I stumbled into FWP's 2021/2022 FAQ document (https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/hunter-faq-09-9-2021-final.pdf) which states that "Corner crossing, such as at section corners, in checkerboard land patterns (mix of public and private land) is illegal without permission from the adjacent landowner(s)."





The last time I had even bothered to look into it (2016?) FWP was about as non-committal as you would imagine on the issue, since it's the seemingly grayest area of the West:



Did I miss something at a legislative session? What changed other than FWP Leadership and Government heads? I know CC gets beaten down more frequently than a 2 year old Muley buck on public, and I am aware how the vast majority of us feel about it. My intent in posing this was more to figure out if I missed something all together, or if FWP is using this as a paper dragon to dissuade the general public from causing headaches for them.

 

[Beignet]

Noticed they didn't cite a state law. But, you can betcha that the legislature is probably working on one for the upcoming session.

 

[Irrelevant]

It's basically the offseason, which means when the snow shovels come out, the Corner Crossing machine gets fired up as well.
I stumbled into FWP's 2021/2022 FAQ document (https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/hunter-faq-09-9-2021-final.pdf) which states that "Corner crossing, such as at section corners, in checkerboard land patterns (mix of public and private land) is illegal without permission from the adjacent landowner(s)."


View attachment 254009


The last time I had even bothered to look into it (2016?) FWP was about as non-committal as you would imagine on the issue, since it's the seemingly grayest area of the West:

View attachment 254010

Did I miss something at a legislative session? What changed other than FWP Leadership and Government heads? I know CC gets beaten down more frequently than a 2 year old Muley buck on public, and I am aware how the vast majority of us feel about it. My intent in posing this was more to figure out if I missed something all together, or if FWP is using this as a paper dragon to dissuade the general public from causing headaches for them.

Per the BHA's Brief, that stance is unconstitutional, at least in regard to federal lands.

 

[rogerthat]

Yup. Paper . if you say it enough times that makes it true….right out the ol playbook

 

[YoungGun]

Per the BHA's Brief, that stance is unconstitutional, at least in regard to federal lands.

That is what I was curious about- if there could be grounds for a lawsuit based on inaccurate information.

 

[Irrelevant]

That is what I was curious about- if there could be grounds for a lawsuit based on inaccurate information.

I think they would have to cite you for violations then you contest it.

 

[JimQ]

Came across this story earlier today in regards to the Wyoming version of this thread...

Hunters claim in filing that courts have OK'd corner crossing

 

[joelweb]

The Montana access guide still states that corner crossing is "not recommended"

http://dnrc.mt.gov/divisions/trust/docs/mt-access-guide

 

[nrpate05]

I assume it is just FWP saying it so they don't get a ton of calls asking about it or dealing with the headache of people doing it all the time. Or maybe landowners have pressured them to say it is illegal. I bet if you called them and asked for a law on it they wouldn't be able to point you to anything.

 

[canadiantuxedo]

It's basically the offseason, which means when the snow shovels come out, the Corner Crossing machine gets fired up as well.
I stumbled into FWP's 2021/2022 FAQ document (https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/hunter-faq-09-9-2021-final.pdf) which states that "Corner crossing, such as at section corners, in checkerboard land patterns (mix of public and private land) is illegal without permission from the adjacent landowner(s)."


View attachment 254009


The last time I had even bothered to look into it (2016?) FWP was about as non-committal as you would imagine on the issue, since it's the seemingly grayest area of the West:

View attachment 254010

Did I miss something at a legislative session? What changed other than FWP Leadership and Government heads? I know CC gets beaten down more frequently than a 2 year old Muley buck on public, and I am aware how the vast majority of us feel about it. My intent in posing this was more to figure out if I missed something all together, or if FWP is using this as a paper dragon to dissuade the general public from causing headaches for them.

You did not miss anything. There is no statute or case law unequivocally prohibiting corner crossing in Montana. I'd be curious to see how a ballot initiative would do that seeks to establish a right to responsibly corner cross.

 

[RobG]

Did you expect anything less of Gianforte’s FWP director pick?

 

[canadiantuxedo]

It will get shot down the fwp is full of outfitters and private land owners... all not for corner crossing

A ballot initiative is presented to all voting-age Montana citizens, not the FWP.

 

[YoungGun]

Did you expect anything less of Gianforte’s FWP director pick?

Sadly, no.

 

[Eric Albus]

A ballot initiative is presented to all voting-age Montana citizens, not the FWP.

All voting age citizens, 99.9% of which have ZERO clue as to what they’re voting on? Let the best lobby team win??? Not the way I want the law of the land decided, and neither should you.


This needs to be decided in the courts.

 

[Eric Albus]

Sadly, no.

Gov. G’s pick has done more to stir the status quo than any other director in Mt history, and certainly more than in the last 16 years.
I might not agree with everything and the way it’s been done, but at least something is happening, and I have hope we will come away with some serious wins for the RESOURCE!!

 

[406dn]

All voting age citizens, 99.9% of which have ZERO clue as to what they’re voting on? Let the best lobby team win??? Not the way I want the law of the land decided, and neither should you.


This needs to be decided in the courts.

Really, no more than one person in a thousand has a clue to what the corner crossing issue entails? I think the awareness is considerably higher than that.

Since the courts have never ruled on it, it is perfectly proper for either the people or the state legislature to decide what the law should be. Of those two, I could more easily accept what the people decide with a direct vote on it, win or lose.

 

[Hammsolo]

The Montana access guide still states that corner crossing is "not recommended"

http://dnrc.mt.gov/divisions/trust/docs/mt-access-guide

Semantics. I hate this gamey crap.

 

[Eric Albus]

Really, no more than one person in a thousand has a clue to what the corner crossing issue entails? I think the awareness is considerably higher than that.

Since the courts have never ruled on it, it is perfectly proper for either the people or the state legislature to decide what the law should be. Of those two, I could more easily accept what the people decide with a direct vote on it, win or lose.

I’d not be comfortable at all with the “people” deciding. Just go ask without priming most people what “corner crossing” is and you’ll find out. If all you associate with is a narrow group of the hunting crowd you’ll get a skewed view. Non hunters out number hunters significantly.
99.9 is an obvious exaggeration.

 

[canadiantuxedo]

I’d not be comfortable at all with the “people” deciding. Just go ask without priming most people what “corner crossing” is and you’ll find out. If all you associate with is a narrow group of the hunting crowd you’ll get a skewed view. Non hunters out number hunters significantly.
99.9 is an obvious exaggeration.

If your barometer for whether the people of Montana should determine the outcome of an issue is whether or not they have a fully-informed, highly nuanced understanding of the issue, then nothing should ever be presented to the public.

The fact is the Montana Constitution, Article III, Section (4)(1), expressly allows the people to "enact laws by initiative." Considering the vast majority of Montanans recreate on public land, I bet a majority of Montanans would vote to allow for corner crossing and establish more access opportunities.

However, given you are an outfitter, I understand such an outcome may have a negative impact on your business. Especially so if you outfit in checkerboard areas.

 

[406dn]

I’d not be comfortable at all with the “people” deciding. Just go ask without priming most people what “corner crossing” is and you’ll find out. If all you associate with is a narrow group of the hunting crowd you’ll get a skewed view. Non hunters out number hunters significantly.
99.9 is an obvious exaggeration.

The people decide many things, such as the governor, state legislators, US Senators, Congressmen, yada,yada. There are some of above that I want in office, others I don't. But I accept that the majority of the people wanted to go in that direction.

It seems to me that if an issue is put on the ballot, each side can make their case to the electorate. If the side I prefer fails to make a convincing case and corner crossing is denied, I can live with that.