VAspeedgoat
Well-known member
Isn't this the theory of "survival of the fittest" at work?
Militia takes over wildlife refuge headquarters
- Thread starter Oak
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TheJason
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Good Lord, I couldn't make it to the end either. I was ready to shove a steak knife into my eardrums.
What an idiot.
Huntin_GI
Member
Every once in a while, the world gets the opportunity to see a whole lot of idiots gathered in one place who make a scene and the media eats it up. Ferguson, MO, anything Al Sharpton attends, and this nonsense in Oregon are some of the most recent gatherings that come to mind.
LopeHunter
Well-known member
What sort of circle jerk logic festered around cattle auctions or church socials to get 20 - 30 people to think they could roll up with guns and take over a Federal bird sanctuary in Oregon and this would become the successful tipping point for 1000s of ranch owners and "patriots" to rise up with arms to take over federal land holdings?
As best as I could determine, the Bundy Plan is for all federal land to be placed in a co-op where then the revenues will be shared between co-op owners which are limited to ranchers. Grazing revenues. Mining revenues.
This was never about anything more than enrichment of the ranchers that have BLM allotments today. Sure, ranching is hard. BLM and NF pull land out of grazing and some ranchers feel they were entitled to keep using the land as pappy did. No.
Treason resulted. The "patriots" now want to go home and hug the wives. Boo hoo. You are headed to jail. About 1 in 100 persons charged with a Federal crime beat the rap. These people are toast.
Thankfully, most ranchers comprehend that BLM and NF managers are no better or worse than the typical government employee you meet at the DMV, Post Office or TSA. We all deal with those employees and for better or worse some are knuckleheads and some are lazy and some are even crooks. Most are trying. If you do not like dealing with government employees then find a vocation that limits that required interaction. Ranching on BLM land is not such a vocation.
As best as I could determine, the Bundy Plan is for all federal land to be placed in a co-op where then the revenues will be shared between co-op owners which are limited to ranchers. Grazing revenues. Mining revenues.
This was never about anything more than enrichment of the ranchers that have BLM allotments today. Sure, ranching is hard. BLM and NF pull land out of grazing and some ranchers feel they were entitled to keep using the land as pappy did. No.
Treason resulted. The "patriots" now want to go home and hug the wives. Boo hoo. You are headed to jail. About 1 in 100 persons charged with a Federal crime beat the rap. These people are toast.
Thankfully, most ranchers comprehend that BLM and NF managers are no better or worse than the typical government employee you meet at the DMV, Post Office or TSA. We all deal with those employees and for better or worse some are knuckleheads and some are lazy and some are even crooks. Most are trying. If you do not like dealing with government employees then find a vocation that limits that required interaction. Ranching on BLM land is not such a vocation.
James Riley
Banned
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"He described a scene of bedlam as word arrived that the FBI had shot and killed LaVoy Finicum. Some raced to their vehicles and sped away, leaving behind guns and other valuables." http://www.kgw.com/news/video-5-left-at-refuge-want-charges-against-1-dropped/24250437
Man, I'd like to sneak in there and get those weapons, especially if there are any Winchester lever guns, or Winchester clones, or Colt SAAs, or Colt SAA clones.
Man, I'd like to sneak in there and get those weapons, especially if there are any Winchester lever guns, or Winchester clones, or Colt SAAs, or Colt SAA clones.
James Riley
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That about says it all right there.
JohnCushman
Well-known member
After blowing a police traffic stop and speeding like a mile down the road before turning off the road and getting his truck stuck in the snow and trying to run on foot, then turning back to charge the police...
I still don't take a lot of Mark's account a face value because it's all supposed accounts from their side, which they are going to blow it all out of proportion for their sympathizers. Like others have said, I'll wait for the dash cam and body cam videos. But, when a man says publically repeatedly that he won't go to prison and he'll die shooting, and then runs a traffic stop and charges at the police..he should expect to get shot...and now they have their martyr
grizzly_
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Pretty interesting read on the charges that were filed...
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0129-white-oregon-militia-charges-20160129-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0129-white-oregon-militia-charges-20160129-story.html
JohnCushman
Well-known member
A single charge? I hope the Feds jump in on this too... What bull$hit....
utah400elk
Well-known member
That was simply a PC arrest charge. I would bet they present more charges to GJ and they will be facing additional charges.
TheJason
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this.
they are just showing PC to arrest and hold. the complete charging list will likely be much longer.
JWP58
Banned
Pc affidavits are usually short and sweet. The D.A. or whatever federal prosecutors will charge what they want.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
I hope you guys are right its sad that politics will likely decide the charges.
JWP58
Banned
Just reading up on the Ryan Payne fellow.....wow what a nut. Full blown sovereign citizen....kook
katqanna
Well-known member
At the American Lands Council website, Jennifer Fielder is now listed as the Interim CEO.
I don't know squat about him, but you have to shake your head at the hypocrisy of the sovereign dudes. They live here, they want all the freedoms, they want all the ancillary benefits of our infrastructure, schools, public agencies, law enforcement, first responders, health care that takes care of them in emergencies because they don't like health insurance you name it, our currency, our market-based economy, our ........ but they denounce their citizenship as Americans.
In my CPA firm I encountered a lot of them who wanted me to get them out of tax jams. Once they gave their hogwash about Posse Com and all the other crap I told them I was not interested in helping them. I wouldn't take their money if they gave it to me, let alone do work for their money.
JWP58
Banned
http://missoulanews.bigskypress.com/missoula/freedom-fighter/Content?oid=2054145&showFullText=true
"More specifically, he came to believe that slavery never really existed in the United States and that African Americans in the antebellum South "didn't view themselves as slaves." He came to believe in "an effort by some Jews to control the world." He came to believe the founders of the United States intended for the states to act as sovereign countries. He came to believe taxes are a form of "legal plunder." He came to believe names are spelled in all-caps on driver's licenses because U.S. citizens are actually "corporate entities." He came to believe U.S. courts are actually foreign admiralty courts. He came to believe that "in most states you have the lawful authority to kill a police officer that is unlawfully trying to arrest you." He came to believe when a newborn child's footprint is made on a birth certificate, that child is effectively entering a life of servitude to the U.S. government, which borrows money from China based on that child's estimated lifetime earning potential."
If Payne believes half of that ^^^^^^ whoa. That article is a great look inside the sovereign movement.
"More specifically, he came to believe that slavery never really existed in the United States and that African Americans in the antebellum South "didn't view themselves as slaves." He came to believe in "an effort by some Jews to control the world." He came to believe the founders of the United States intended for the states to act as sovereign countries. He came to believe taxes are a form of "legal plunder." He came to believe names are spelled in all-caps on driver's licenses because U.S. citizens are actually "corporate entities." He came to believe U.S. courts are actually foreign admiralty courts. He came to believe that "in most states you have the lawful authority to kill a police officer that is unlawfully trying to arrest you." He came to believe when a newborn child's footprint is made on a birth certificate, that child is effectively entering a life of servitude to the U.S. government, which borrows money from China based on that child's estimated lifetime earning potential."
If Payne believes half of that ^^^^^^ whoa. That article is a great look inside the sovereign movement.
BBwheelgunner
Member
And I came to believe... all of that is a load of bulls#*%t!
It is just a way to justify being some kind of extreme conspiracy theorist that can twist anything around so they do no wrong.
Was trying to explain the "sovereign citizen" thing to my Girlfriend earlier, and its strange to even say it out loud
It is just a way to justify being some kind of extreme conspiracy theorist that can twist anything around so they do no wrong.
Was trying to explain the "sovereign citizen" thing to my Girlfriend earlier, and its strange to even say it out loud
airlocksniffer
Member
utah400elk
Well-known member
FBI just released the video. It looks like a clean shooting to me. He almost hits a officer/agent when he drives into the snow bank. He jumps out with hands up then reaches for his pocket twice. The reports are that he had a 9mm in that pocket. It looks like suicide by cop to me.
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