Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying

[Muledeer4me]

In all honesty ,my view of John Kerry has less to do with his "Vietnam service "
and more to do with his voting record on firearm issue's and his standing with the animal right's group's.
I think anyone that served our country should get thanked for that.
That goes for vietnam or the national guard!!!!!!!!


But the fact remains that it was John Kerry that pushed the issue in the first place .
Now he is taking heat for it and he can't take it.

It's the over all Liberal view's and voting record that I don't like about the Kerry ,Edward's team.
They suck because of what and who they are not because of any war record they may or may not have earned.

 

[2fastnaz]

Yeah woopdy doo. How many who served in the military never disobeyed an order? Don't lie, there isn't a person who served that couldn't be brought up on some charge somewhere. Remember that little thing called the UCMJ.

 

[Hangar18]

First, it is an embellishment to say that Kerry has made it the CENTERpiece of his campaign.

Oh really? The NY Times and Bill Clinton seem to disagree with you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/06/politics/campaign/06kerry.html?ei=5090&en=ea2c678818915307&ex=1252123200&partner=rssuserland&pagewanted=all (Subscr. req'd)

Kerry Enlisting Clinton Aides in Effort to Refocus Campaign
By ADAM NAGOURNEY and DAVID M. HALBFINGER

Published: September 6, 2004


Former President Bill Clinton, in a 90-minute telephone conversation from his hospital room, offered John Kerry detailed advice on Saturday night on how to reinvigorate his candidacy, as Mr. Kerry enlisted more Clinton advisers to help shape his strategy and message for the remainder of the campaign.

In an expansive conversation, Mr. Clinton, who is awaiting heart surgery, told Mr. Kerry that he should move away from talking about Vietnam, which had been the central theme of his candidacy, and focus instead on drawing contrasts with President Bush on job creation and health care policies, officials with knowledge of the conversation said....

That's just a partial quote from the article. I can PM, or post the whole thing if you aren't subscribed. It's pretty long.


As for the rest, I am not saying this is true or not, but there is a possibility that the memos are forgeries. Until a credible source either confirms or denies this, I will not believe the documents are forged. And I will concede that this is not good for Bush in my eyes.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

 

[Ithaca 37]

I suspect Dubya dodged the physical because he couldn't pass the drug test.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Dubya's house of cards continues to fall.... I bet he wishes the Swifties and Karl Rove never hatched up their lies...

The records show that in May 1972, Bush disobeyed a direct order. On May 4, 1972, Lt. Colonel Jerry Killian, the commander of Bush's squadron, sent First Lt. Bush a memo stating, "You are ordered to report" to Ellington Air Force Base in Houston--where Bush's Air National Guard unit was stationed--"to conduct an annual physical examination."

Bush did not appear for this physical. And on May 19, Killian wrote a memo detailing a conversation he had with Bush. He noted the two had "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November....Says he wants to transfer to Alabama to any unit he can get in to. Says that he is working on another campaign for his dad." Regarding the physical exam, Killian wrote, "We talked about him getting his flight physical situation fixed before his date. Says he will do that in Alabama if he stays in flight status. He has this campaign to do and other things that will follow and may not have the time. I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment. He's been working with staff to come up with options and identified a unit that may accept him. I told him I had to have written acceptance before he would be transferred, but think he's also talking to someone upstairs."

Bush never reported for his physical. Moreover, another Killian memo shows that Bush was suspended from flight status not just because he did not take his physical (as has previously been reported) but also because he had not performed adequately. Furthermore, this memo indicates that Bush headed off to Alabama--that is, he skipped out on the Air National Guard--before a transfer was arranged and approved. On August 1, 1972, Killian kicked Bush off flight status and wrote a memo noting that the suspension was "due to failure to perform to" Air National Guard and U.S. Air Force "standards and failure to meet annual physical examination (flight) as ordered."

Previously, Bush's aides have given two reasons for his failure to take that flight exam. First they said he was unable to be examined because he was in Alabama at the time and his personal physician was back in Houston. But that explanation did not wash. Flight physicals are given not by personal physicians but by flight surgeons, and there were flight surgeons available in Alabama. But the Bush camp has also claimed that Bush did not take the physical because the F-102A fighter jet he flew was about to be mothballed and that there were no planes for him to fly in Alabama. Yet an additional set of records from Bush's military file released by the White House days ago shows that Bush's unit flew F-102As until 1974. And the Killian memos make clear that the physical exam was not optional. Bush was ordered to submit to an exam, and he refused that order. Under Texas law, a member of the Guard who "willfully" disobeys a superior officer "shall be punished as a court-martial directs."

Killian's August 1 memo went on: "I recommended transfer of this officer to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron [based in Alabama] in May....The transfer was not allowed. Officer [Bush] has made no attempt to meet his training certification or flight physical. Officer expresses desire to transfer out of state including assignment to non-flying billets."

 

[MarlandS]

The documents might have been faked anyway http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200409\POL20040909d.html

 

[Hangar18]

I'm betting that these memos will be proven to be forgeries. Follow the updates on the powerlineblog link about. A good case is being made if you look at things objectively.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Did you see where Dubya went to a military hospital last week to visit soldiers??? And as he was leaving, he asked if he could get credit against his National Guard Duty committiments...


Bush Lied
And Needs to Answer the Questions Himself

BUSH LIED: SAID HE GOT NO SPECIAL TREATMENT IN THE NATIONAL GUARD

Moderator: You are confident no influence was exercised on your behalf [in getting a spot in the Guard]?
George W. Bush: I am, yeah. [1994 Texas Governor's Debate]

…BUT BEN BARNES PULLED STRINGS TO GET HIM IN

Dan Rather: …Barnes says he had a meeting with the late oilman Sid Adger, a friend to both Barnes and then-congressman George Bush….
Ben Barnes: …But he said, basically, would I help young George Bush get in the Air National Guard?
Rather: Barnes says he contacted his longtime friend, General James Rose, the head of Texas' Air National Guard….
Rather: And you recommended George W. Bush?
Barnes: Yes, I did.
Rather: You said that you did this for others, what we normally call "preferential treatment."
Barnes: Oh, I would describe it as preferential treatment. [CBS "60 Minutes," 9/9/04]

BUSH LIED: SAID HE FULFILLED HIS DUTY

Bush, speaking from the Oval Office in 2004: "I'm just telling you, I did my duty." [Meet the Press, 2/8/04]

…BUT HE DISOBEYED A DIRECT ORDER TO TAKE A PHYSICAL AND WAS GROUNDED

"President Bush failed to carry out a direct order from his superior in the Texas Air National Guard in May 1972 to undertake a medical examination that was necessary for him to remain a qualified pilot, according to documents made public yesterday." [Washington Post, 9/9/04]

The colonel [Killian] goes on, the "officer," meaning then-Lieutenant Bush, "has made no attempt to meet his training certification or flight physical." [CBS "60 Minutes," 9/9/04]

…BUT HE TRIED TO GO OVER HIS COMMANDER'S HEAD TO GET A POSITIVE EVALUATION

In August 1972, Bush's superior officer Lt. Col. Jerry Killian notes in a memo that Bush had gone over his head and was "talking to someone upstairs" to avoid service in Alabama. [CBS "60 Minutes," 9/9/04]

>…BUT HE MISSED MONTHS OF DUTY

"Yet Bush, a fighter-interceptor pilot, performed no service at all for one six-month period in 1972 and for another period of almost three months in 1973, the records show." [Boston Globe, 9/8/04]

BUSH LIED…AND THE ONLY WAY GEORGE BUSH PUTS THIS BEHIND HIM IS TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FOR HIMSELF.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Questions George Bush Must Answer About His Service
Washington, D.C. - In response to new revelations regarding George W. Bush's military record the Democratic National Committee released a series of questions the President is obligated to answer.

Q: Why did George Bush say "I did my duty" when he missed months of duty in 1972, 73 and 74?

Q: How did George Bush avoid getting called into active service for missing months of duty in 1972, 73, 74?

Q: Why did George Bush disobey a direct order to take his physical?

Q: What standard did George Bush fail to meet when he was grounded for failing to perform at US Air Force/Texas Air National Guard Standards?

Q: Why did George Bush go above his commander's head to ensure a favorable evaluation he had not earned?

Q: Why did George Bush say he received "no special treatment" when Ben Barnes says he pulled strings to secure a Guard slot for him?

Q: Who asked Bush family friend Sidney Adger to get Bush a slot in the Guard immediately after Bush graduated and at the height of the Vietnam War?

Q: When will George Bush produce any credible witness who can attest to his service in the Alabama Air National Guard?

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Why is he obligated to answer? Who says so?

 

[BuzzH]

Ohhh, maybe all those pesky voters????

I'm kind of leary of anyone who refuses to answer a few simple questions...

 

[wyomingtim]

Well, I am interested in finding out if they were forged documents. More and more people are questioning the authenticity of the papers. If they were forged, that is a serious issue. To make something up like that against anyone is just plain wrong, let alone to do it against the sitting President, I don't care who he is. If it is discovered that they are fake, I think an investigation should be done into who did it and who ordered it. I don't think Kerry did it, I don't think he has the mind to come up with that sort of thing. I would think more like Terry McCauliffe (sp?) or someone like that.

 

[wyomingtim]

OK, I am the above post. Who have I made personal attacks against? I have done nothing in the way of personal attacks compared to some on this forum.

[ 09-10-2004, 11:06: Message edited by: Calif. Hunter ]

 

[Ithaca 37]

wyotim., Sorry. you posted while I was writing my post. It was MD's post I was referring to. I'll edit my post.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I've deleted two posts in which personal attacks were made.

 

[wyomingtim]

NP Ithaca. I forgive you

After all, cant we all just get along?

 

[Hangar18]

Back to our regularly scheduled topic...

Time to start watching CBS News again, just to see the impending train wreck.
http://www.wbap.com/listingsentryheadline.asp?ID=239369&PT=wbaptopstories

WBAP Exclusive
AUDIO -Daughter of Ben Barnes Disputes Father's Claims as Political

The Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes' recollections over how he helped President Bush get into the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War have evolved over the years from fuzzy to distinct.

Barnes, who once claimed he did not help Bush enter the National Guard, reversed his story and told CBS News 60 Minutes that he in fact did help Bush.

Mr. Barnes daughter called the Mark Davis Show and spoke with Monica Crowley on WBAP September 9th dismissing Barnes' claims as political and opportunistic.

Click here for audio (Windows Media).

Excerpt of Call:

BARNES: I love my father very much, but he's doing this for purely political reasons. He is a big Kerry fund-raiser and he is writing a book also. And [the Bush story] is what he's leading the book off with. ... He denied this to me in 2000 that he did get Bush out [of Vietnam service]. Now he's saying he did.

CROWLEY: Did he tell you, Amy – and I'm glad I have you on the line with me – did your father tell you that he was prepared to do this on behalf of John Kerry – go after President Bush like this?

BARNES: He told me he was going to do it. In fact, I talked to him a couple of months ago. He told me he was writing the book. He told me that he was going to be talking about this. And he knows that I – we have very diverse political opinions. He knows my opinions and we get into this debate every time I see him. But, you know, he said that he was going to be talking about it.

CROWLEY: Now you're saying, Amy, that he has had two separate stories on President Bush's Guard duty during the Vietnam era?

BARNES: Yes, yes. This came out in 2000 and I asked him then, at the time, if he [helped get Bush into the Guard]. He said: "No, absolutely not. I did not do that." -

CROWLEY: So, I hate to put you in this position, but I will ask you, do you think your father, Ben Barnes who was on "60 Minutes II" with Dan Rather last night – do you believe that he lied on the air to the American people last night about President Bush?

BARNES; Yes, I do. I absolutely do. And I think he's doing he's doing it for purely political, opportunistic reasons – trying to get John Kerry elected and trying to make Bush look like the bad person. ... Like I said, he's going to be trying to promote his book that he's got coming out.

© 2004 WBAP all rights reserved.

 

[wyomingtim]

That is interesting that so many people are saying much teh same thing about Mr. Barnes (no relation to me by the way), but I am more interested in the technical evidence. After all, it is easy for someone to say "honest judge, I didn't know how old she was. She told me she was 18."

 

[Michaelr]

Looks like another nightmare for Kerry.

It is looking more and mor that the docs. in question are fake.

The big issue will be not that they are or are not acurate but that they are faked which will make Kerry look even worse than he already does.

 

[Hangar18]

There is some technical evidence in a couple of posts earlier in this thread, and in the other thread about "...Fakes.."