Law Enforcement on Public Lands

[mtmiller]

USFS, BLM, local F&G are all under funded , ....

....but where to find the money?

I started with the BLM in '02 and the grazing fee was $1.43 that year. Fast forward to 2023 - $1.35, but I digress.

 

[sccritterkiller]

....but where to find the money?

I started with the BLM in '02 and the grazing fee was $1.43 that year. Fast forward to 2023 - $1.35, but I digress.

Great example but it's chump change compared to what Ukraine got...how the hell do you have a $6B rounding error?

Then there is always this list...take your pick.

2024 Congressional Pig Book

www.cagw.org

It's not that we don't have the money it just hasn't been made a priority by the voters.

 

[mtmiller]

Yep, it went right over your head.

Carry on.

 

[ismith]

Not near enough law enforcement anywhere from what I can tell. Game Wardens and Rangers in MT are especially understaffed, underpaid and overworked. And yep, there are several places we used to camp around Helena 20 years ago that I won't go to now.

Like where?

 

[ismith]

Yep, it went right over your head.

Carry on.

Who are you responding to?

 

[Schism]

Who are you responding to?

The guy who quoted him in post #62

 

[JEL]

Like where?

Moose Creek and Park Lake

 

[Don Fischer]

Just th

Hardly ever see any Federal or State LEOs in National Forest in NE Oregon. 15+ years ago I would occasionally see State Patrol LEO during hunting season patrolling, but not any more. Since then, the County Sheriff was contracted with USFS for one deputy to enforce closed USFS roads against ATV use in hunting season, but with a lot of hours spent in USFS in the fall, I don't think I've ever seen them more than once or twice. Have seen a lot of out of towner ATVs buzzing around, however. Notifying local USFS doesn't seem to do anything.

One issue with the position is that with the number sketchy people now out there (which you should presume are armed and whacked out on drugs/don't have good reasoning skills), you'd almost need LEOs paired up. Being on patrol by yourself with backup 30+ minutes away isn't enticing. But paired up costs more.

inking about this. I'm 77yrs old and have hunted new York, Oregon Colorado, Montana and Alaska and have never had a hunting license checked! Big game, small game and birds!

 

[MonsterElk]

Just th

inking about this. I'm 77yrs old and have hunted new York, Oregon Colorado, Montana and Alaska and have never had a hunting license checked! Big game, small game and birds!

Never had USFS in WY only G&F check mine

 

[Walkathon]

I've been checked once while deer hunting in MN on public. Only time being checked while hunting in 35 years.

 

[Nameless Range]

Moose Creek and Park Lake

@ismith , 6 years ago I listened to the sheriff of Jefferson County say that he would never take his family camping at Delmo on a weekend. 1 year ago I heard the new sheriff say the same thing.

4 or 5 years ago, I heard a USFS District Ranger say it was too dangerous a place for a campground host.

I’ve been up there on weekdays and was surprised at the amount of geetered out weirdos. A 911 call could be an hour long wait easy. It’s an unacceptable state of affairs, and a shame in my mind - to have this amazing mountain lake an inappropriate place for families. I know folks are working on solutions.

 

[MonsterElk]

For a long time we had a game warden that always made his rounds great with people and no body tried stupid stuff. Now in the last 2 years we have had 2 different game wardens that you never see on the mountain, 2023 season the game warden was on the river most of the time during hunting season. and it shows because this year some of the things you see people do WOW. You explain it to the game warden and they ask did you take pictures? WHAT? I just scratch my head walk away thinking. So you want me to stop hunting and do your job? Get out of your boat and load up that wheeler or horse and make your present seen.

 

[Straight Arrow]

For a long time we had a game warden that always made his rounds great with people and no body tried stupid stuff. Now in the last 2 years we have had 2 different game wardens that you never see on the mountain, 2023 season the game warden was on the river most of the time during hunting season. and it shows because this year some of the things you see people do WOW. You explain it to the game warden and they ask did you take pictures? WHAT? I just scratch my head walk away thinking. So you want me to stop hunting and do your job? Get out of your boat and load up that wheeler or horse and make your present seen.

Which state?

 

[MonsterElk]

Which state?

Wy

 

[RobG]

He was riding a motorized vehicle miles behind a closed gate. The rule on the forest here is that E bikes are considered motorized and there is signage at the trailhead.

His bike..View attachment 290245

I’m guessing the fine is a pittance compared to what he is making selling huckleberries. On BLM it was $100 last time I checked. In SE Montana people literally just factor it in as a cost of hunting in the rare circumstance that they get caught.

I reported an illegal mountain bike trail on national forest, complete with berms and jumps. They already knew about it and have done nothing.

 

[Mallardsx2]

He was riding a motorized vehicle miles behind a closed gate. The rule on the forest here is that E bikes are considered motorized and there is signage at the trailhead.

His bike..View attachment 290245

Stick the tires next time. When someone has to push that bitch out a few miles, they will likely not drive it in there again.

What are they going to do? Call the law on you? lol

 

[FI460]

I’m guessing the fine is a pittance compared to what he is making selling huckleberries. On BLM it was $100 last time I checked. In SE Montana people literally just factor it in as a cost of hunting in the rare circumstance that they get caught.

I reported an illegal mountain bike trail on national forest, complete with berms and jumps. They already knew about it and have done nothing.

Interesting thought. I bet the fine for driving on a USFS/ BLM non-motorized is considerably less than some of the private timber company access permits...

Edit:
Yup. Exclusive access for less than a Weyerhaeuser permit

 

[theat]

@ismith , 6 years ago I listened to the sheriff of Jefferson County say that he would never take his family camping at Delmo on a weekend. 1 year ago I heard the new sheriff say the same thing.

4 or 5 years ago, I heard a USFS District Ranger say it was too dangerous a place for a campground host.

I’ve been up there on weekdays and was surprised at the amount of geetered out weirdos. A 911 call could be an hour long wait easy. It’s an unacceptable state of affairs, and a shame in my mind - to have this amazing mountain lake an inappropriate place for families. I know folks are working on solutions.

That is sad to hear. I haven't been to Delmoe Lake in a couple decades, but it was one of my favorite places in the world when I was a kid. If we weren't swimming or fishing in the lake, we were wandering around for hours in the woods scrambling around on all the huge boulders. Sounds like you wouldn't want to let kids be kids around there anymore.

My grandpa had a mining claim with a cabin on it a few miles up behind the lake. It was a major challenge to get back there and felt like the most remote place in the world back then. The last couple times I have been up there, it felt more like I was camping in the middle of a motorcycle and atvs race track. There are new user made trails everywhere up there now along with all the trash and other crap associated with that kind of user group. Last time I went, some guys on atvs smashed my window in and stole everything in my rig from several guns to the hitch and floor mats. Lots of sketchy folks in that area these days.

 

[Westelker]

Definitely not sufficient here either, and I am not sure you are going to see an answer where someone says it is sufficient. I can think of two local areas nearby that are getting shredded because of lack of enforcement: Buffalo Creek and the BLM land just above Buena Vista.

Both can be plagued with 2+ week campers (more so on BLM than Buff Creek) and are exploited - primarily via OHV - the point where people just completely ignore signage, fences, barriers, etc. I won't mention the state from which most of the trucks, 400' campers and 2 OHVs per family member are from... but deep in their hearts, they don't seem to give a F about the rules in these areas.

2020 pushed a lot of not outdoorsy people into the outdoors. You'd always find TP and face wipes and crap near campsites here and there before it, but now, you can't seem to go to a campsite or BLM area that isn't littered with both of those things because these morons think its completely biodegradable... to say nothing of the nastiness of leaving that crap there. I didn't realize mega trailers didn't come with trash cans.

I'm a little late to this tread, but I couldn't refrain to add my 2 cents! I know the spot above BV, it's disgusting there; and, almost anywhere you go in Colorado. I don't know who are worse...Tent, truck or RV campers. A lot of them must think aluminum foil, beer cans and bottles burn up in fires and toilet tissue degrades faster if it's hidden behind a bush. MtnElk's hit it on the head by stating ..... don't these campers tops, trailer and RVs have trash cans?? I think these "so called" outdoorsman just don't give a sh..!
Actually... New Mexico might be worse from what I saw while elk hunting near Tres Piedras. The primitive camp sites with fire rings full of garbage and beer cans. Tissues behind every bush and all the signs were used for target practice. Even a local forest service officer told me that "they" are lawless" ... and that includes their hunting ethics as well!

 

[Westelker]

W

Hardly ever see any Federal or State LEOs in National Forest in NE Oregon. 15+ years ago I would occasionally see State Patrol LEO during hunting season patrolling, but not any more. Since then, the County Sheriff was contracted with USFS for one deputy to enforce closed USFS roads against ATV use in hunting season, but with a lot of hours spent in USFS in the fall, I don't think I've ever seen them more than once or twice. Have seen a lot of out of towner ATVs buzzing around, however. Notifying local USFS doesn't seem to do anything.

One issue with the position is that with the number sketchy people now out there (which you should presume are armed and whacked out on drugs/don't have good reasoning skills), you'd almost need LEOs paired up. Being on patrol by yourself with backup 30+ minutes away isn't enticing. But paired up costs more.

Who wants to be "packing" to protect yourself, when you just want to do a little fly fishing for a couple hours.