Illegal Thermal Use

[DFS]

So you don’t have any issue with someone using thermals to locate game animals and then hunting those animals after legal shooting light?

Or using it to position for a shot at first light.

 

[trackerbacker]

Sir, I think you need to take a moment to recognize the experience and expertise you have decided to firmly position yourself against- especially that of @devon deer . Someone with a better vocabulary than me might say you are spouting opinion contrary to the facts. Huh, looks like I didn’t need a better vocabulary after all.

You, sir, are an abrasive child refusing to accept the fact that this technology offers an extreme advantage that is entirely opposed to the principles of fair chase which are fundamental to the North American Model of Conservation.

I’m not even certain why I’m giving your inane blathering any of my time, but I feel compelled to point out that you are dead wrong in your assessment of the advantage offered by thermal, and your posts make me question your hunting ethics in general.

Wah?

Every tool in our modern quiver is exponentially extremely advantageous compared to that of our games historical environment and predators (yes including us stick throwers)

Along those line, eloquently or in an esoteric manner, enlighten the class with linguistic style that of which tenet of the North American Model of Conservation (fair chase™) one would be breaking by utilizing such a tool?

Explicitly. Tangentially. I'll let you pick.

Because if anything, much like a suppressor, you'll find it runs congruent to the principles and tenets of Conservation.

If however you find it does not, then mimicry must fall along the same lines for the same conceptual arguments you'll make.

As should satellite imagery or digiscoping tools.

As should anything extending, increasing or benefitting the hunters ability in an inorganic capacity.

But, you must look objectively. Unbiased.

That better language for you? I'll wait for the sacred tenets that you espouse are broken by a thermal and somehow not a bugle, digiscoping, escouting, scent control, fancy glass, rangefinders, dog trackers, coon hounds.......(All periods after here are just to be an abrasive child)..............

 

[Lawnboy]

So you don’t have any issue with someone using thermals to locate game animals and then hunting those animals after legal shooting light?

It's currently illegal to do so. That's my point

"Motion-Tracking Devices(MCA 87-6-401)It is unlawful for a person, while hunting,to use any electronic motion-trackingdevice or mechanism that is designedto track the motion of a game animaland relay information on the animal’smovement to the hunter.Motion tracking devices are defined byF&W Commission as remote operatedcamera or video devices capable oftransmitting real time information,pictures, or videos; seismic devices;thermal imaging devices; and satellite andradio telemetry devices.A radio-tracking collar attached to a dogthat is used by a hunter engaged in lawfulhunting activities is not considered anunlawful motion-tracking device."

 

[bigsky2]

Or using it to position for a shot at first light.

That’s what I was meaning, should have worded it differently.

 

[bigsky2]

It's currently illegal to do so. That's my point

"Motion-Tracking Devices(MCA 87-6-401)It is unlawful for a person, while hunting,to use any electronic motion-trackingdevice or mechanism that is designedto track the motion of a game animaland relay information on the animal’smovement to the hunter.Motion tracking devices are defined byF&W Commission as remote operatedcamera or video devices capable oftransmitting real time information,pictures, or videos; seismic devices;thermal imaging devices; and satellite andradio telemetry devices.A radio-tracking collar attached to a dogthat is used by a hunter engaged in lawfulhunting activities is not considered anunlawful motion-tracking device."

Key words “while hunting”. It is becoming pretty common for people to use them to locate game outside of legal shooting hours.

 

[DFS]

That’s what I was meaning, should have worded it differently.

Well I do believe it’s two different issues if you locate elk you start on elk every morning. If you are shadowing elk in the dark to position yourself. Either way I hate to talk about it because if I did either it certainly wouldn’t be fair chase to me and it is happening.

 

[trackerbacker]

Key words “while hunting”. It is becoming pretty common for people to use them to locate game outside of legal shooting hours.

But at that, that very law outlaws many products advertise, used, reviewed, bought and sold here on the regular.

Not one person is recognizing that concept. Y'all are cool buying Irish and Chinese slaves, just not African.

And a lawyer would absolutely decimate 'you' based on the four corners of that law.

 

[bigsky2]

Well I do believe it’s two different issues if you locate elk you start on elk every morning. If you are shadowing elk in the dark to position yourself. Either way I hate to talk about it because if I did either it certainly wouldn’t be fair chase to me and it is happening.

Exactly. Sure you still have to do the work to kill the elk, but just being able to be on elk every day that you’re out is a huge advantage.

 

[Lawnboy]

Key words “while hunting”. It is becoming pretty common for people to use them to locate game outside of legal shooting hours.

So it's legal outside of shooting hours? Nah.....again I say people are going to break the law with no regards to hours or seasons if they want.

 

[DFS]

So it's legal outside of shooting hours? Nah.....again I say people are going to break the law with no regards to hours or seasons if they want.

Wouldn’t it be good if it was against the law outside of shooting hours? Struggling to understand your view point on this one. That way people wouldn’t shamelessly tell me they do it and I should too.

 

[Nick87]

So it's legal outside of shooting hours? Nah.....again I say people are going to break the law with no regards to hours or seasons if they want.

Why have any laws at all then? It's like a paddle lock at least it keeps the honest ones honest. I agree the worst offenders will break the law regardless, but let's try to keep it to a minimum.

 

[Lawnboy]

Wouldn’t it be good if it was against the law outside of shooting hours? Struggling to understand your view point on this one. That way people wouldn’t shamelessly tell me they do it and I should too.

my point is it doesn't say anything about shooting hours. It says hunting and I don't believe you'd get out of a ticket just because of shooting light.
I'm not advocating anything. Make another law or clarify I suppose if that's what you're worried about.

 

[rogerthat]

So it's legal outside of shooting hours? Nah.....again I say people are going to break the law with no regards to hours or seasons if they want.

This is the reason for SB 63. To clean up this issue. So yes with current laws if you turn some one in right now for “scouting” in the predawn dark or position for a pre light shot the wardens are not able to follow-up. Ask me how I know…been an issue I have known about since 2018 and something I have been discussing with fwp. Fwp is on board…this came out of the EQC as well

 

[rogerthat]

my point is it doesn't say anything about shooting hours. It says hunting and I don't believe you'd get out of a ticket just because of shooting light.
I'm not advocating anything. Make another law or clarify I suppose if that's what you're worried about.

You won’t be ticketed currently

 

[rogerthat]

Locating elk in the morning with a thermal would qualify as tracking. You'd get a ticket under the current law.

How could you not be ticketed?

Feel free to discuss with FWP. I have. I have talked extensively with them. 3 directors. 2 heads of enforcement and more discussions with the local wardens and warden captains than I can remember. I have a lot of time into this issue. They aren’t able to prove the case you are hunting. This law is absolutely necessary

 

[rogerthat]

If anything the calendar day doesn’t go far enough. I hoping that gets amended to 24 or 48 hours to ensure this unethical behavior is clearly illegal.