That's a big assumption.
Hunting Spot Rock and Hard place.
- Thread starter 2rocky
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Completely disagree. I'll either give worthwhile information or none at all. That's integrity 101. I'm not so naïve as to think everyone is like that, but to just assume they aren't is wrong IMO.
YMMV.
rtraverdavis
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I lived in San Francisco for a couple years and worked down in Union Square. Every morning on the walk to work there would be hoards of 19 year old white kids in dreadlocks holding clipboards who would aggressively stop me to ask me to sign this or that petition, or donate money to save the Albanian sparkle lizards or whatever. I learned that if I pretended to be on the phone, most would leave me alone. But some would not, some would interrupt my fake phone call to demand I help their cause. So I went even further, I would pretend to be on the phone speaking a completely made up language. Real loud and aggressive, like I was fighting with my wife. If I did that, they left me alone.
Could you try that same strategy with your boss anytime he brings up the subject?
Could you try that same strategy with your boss anytime he brings up the subject?
Just because someone doesn't give exact pin drops of their favorite spots, that doesn't mean somewhat vague information or general areas aren't worthwhile. Yes, I'm assuming, but based on the fact the OP didn't see much at the spots the boss provided, I think its a reasonable assumption.
If someone needs info, I could tell someone 3-4 GOOD spots that are worthwhile, and still keep 1-2 GREAT spots to myself and my integrity would still be in tact. Most people really just need an example of a decent enough spot to get started and can extrapolate on their own from there.
All in all, I usually just keep my mouth shut because talking less generally never leads to more trouble.
davinski
Well-known member
If your boss coached you on the unit, he'll coach others on the unit. Who knows what he'll tell them, but I'd think anything he'd glean from you, he would include. The fact that it's your boss definitely complicates the issue. That's a 52 week per year thing, not a hunting season thing.
I'd do this...tell my buddy to tell me, verbatim, "don't tell anyone where that buck was." Then you can relay that to your boss, in mostly clear conscience. I have, on occasion, led a conversation with "I need you to answer 'no' to the following question." It's usually in jest, but you get my point. As others have said, it should be common knowledge that it is extremely rude to go diving into an area that a paid guide led you to just the year before. People do it, and guides understand it is a risk of the work, but it is kind of dirty pool.
Now I'm just speaking from experience, but after picking a new unit/state that my buddies and I research, scout, and even hunt, we're a lot smarter about that unit altogether. So, the next time we plan that hunt, we pick more areas to scout in addition to where we may or may not have hit paydirt before.
He's a potential Switzerland answer: I would include your boss in that next step, as you look around for more area, you could throw him a bone with something like "I still don't know where his buck was, but after scouting last year and learning more about the unit, I'm going to check out A and B that look great because we didn't see anything in the areas you mention." (I'd bring up that whole not seeing anything his his spots often.) Now, you may or may not even need to check out A and B, but you'll likely also have C, D, E, F areas, etc. that you have now researched.
The last thing a good (jury's still out there based on your thread) boss wants is to wreck any employee's relationships outside of the office, home, friends, anything. Saying stuff like "I have not heard from my buddy for a while..." might point him that way. Whether any of this has that actual potential (it sounds like it does) is up to you and your buddy.
I give my inquisitive staff generalities about where I hunt but definitely not specifics. The very few times I have pointed to exact areas, I did so assuming I could see them and their entire extended family and friends group in that spot and expected nothing in return.
Best of luck. That is a tough spot to be in.
I'd do this...tell my buddy to tell me, verbatim, "don't tell anyone where that buck was." Then you can relay that to your boss, in mostly clear conscience. I have, on occasion, led a conversation with "I need you to answer 'no' to the following question." It's usually in jest, but you get my point. As others have said, it should be common knowledge that it is extremely rude to go diving into an area that a paid guide led you to just the year before. People do it, and guides understand it is a risk of the work, but it is kind of dirty pool.
Now I'm just speaking from experience, but after picking a new unit/state that my buddies and I research, scout, and even hunt, we're a lot smarter about that unit altogether. So, the next time we plan that hunt, we pick more areas to scout in addition to where we may or may not have hit paydirt before.
He's a potential Switzerland answer: I would include your boss in that next step, as you look around for more area, you could throw him a bone with something like "I still don't know where his buck was, but after scouting last year and learning more about the unit, I'm going to check out A and B that look great because we didn't see anything in the areas you mention." (I'd bring up that whole not seeing anything his his spots often.) Now, you may or may not even need to check out A and B, but you'll likely also have C, D, E, F areas, etc. that you have now researched.
The last thing a good (jury's still out there based on your thread) boss wants is to wreck any employee's relationships outside of the office, home, friends, anything. Saying stuff like "I have not heard from my buddy for a while..." might point him that way. Whether any of this has that actual potential (it sounds like it does) is up to you and your buddy.
I give my inquisitive staff generalities about where I hunt but definitely not specifics. The very few times I have pointed to exact areas, I did so assuming I could see them and their entire extended family and friends group in that spot and expected nothing in return.
Best of luck. That is a tough spot to be in.
Not a tough spot at all. OP doesn't have to tell his "boss" a dang thing. mtmuley
TrumpkinTheDwarf
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So, I'm confused... your buddy says he won't tell you where he killed the deer... and your boss is mad at you about it? Sounds like you're off the hook in my opinion. Just don't ever press your buddy on where he shot the buck.
Bluffgruff
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This
antlerradar
Well-known member
This is why I don't like to give out spots. Places almost never live up to expectations and hunters assume that I am holding out on them or giving false info. I would much rather have hunters run the places they have been researching by me and I will tell them what I think on the spot.
i've loosely followed this thread, so sorry if i missed a previously made point
it seems vague, did OP ask the boss for info? or did the boss just spout it out when he heard about the hunt?
let's disregard the the idea (fact?) that it's your buddy's call to divulge info and if you don't know it then you don't know it... disregarding that concept, if you're given unsolicited information then the quid pro quo doesn't exist in my mind
people that freely spout unsolicited advice aren't in a position to require it back
it seems vague, did OP ask the boss for info? or did the boss just spout it out when he heard about the hunt?
let's disregard the the idea (fact?) that it's your buddy's call to divulge info and if you don't know it then you don't know it... disregarding that concept, if you're given unsolicited information then the quid pro quo doesn't exist in my mind
people that freely spout unsolicited advice aren't in a position to require it back
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
Did you ask your boss for the information to begin with, or did he just provide it unsolicited? If you asked for it, I guess I could see how he may expect some reciprocation.
I’m happy to talk with people in broad generalities. Depending on the person, I’m sometimes willing to give more specific areas to check, but those are always places I’ve stumbled upon that I think might be worthwhile but that I wouldn’t be upset about running into this person back there with a truckload of buddies. I don’t expect anyone to reciprocate when I share these. In a personal capacity, I am probably less forthcoming if I’m being asked explicitly for spots.
But to ensure no frustration for myself, I keep info that was gifted to me, spots that are unusually productive, or that were hard-earned in the vault.
I’m happy to talk with people in broad generalities. Depending on the person, I’m sometimes willing to give more specific areas to check, but those are always places I’ve stumbled upon that I think might be worthwhile but that I wouldn’t be upset about running into this person back there with a truckload of buddies. I don’t expect anyone to reciprocate when I share these. In a personal capacity, I am probably less forthcoming if I’m being asked explicitly for spots.
But to ensure no frustration for myself, I keep info that was gifted to me, spots that are unusually productive, or that were hard-earned in the vault.
David58
Well-known member
This. Volunteered information is free, for the most part, but if you solicited pointers you may well have incurred at least a perceived obligation.
The boss aspect is a minefield, I would have tread very carefully on this one unless I knew him very well. Butt hurt? You likely didn't know him that well.
Generalities are almost a given - discussing an area in general terms is almost required to be a decent hunting human. But to be super specific - only if it was you that found the spot and worked for the information.
In the case of an outfitter, I likely would be pretty free with the information, if it was me, because I would have paid $$$ for the hunt, and $$ for a tip, and I doubt seriously that I would sign a nondisclosure agreement. But if my buddy hunted wiht an outfitter and is tight with the information, that's as far as it goes. Hopefully your boss will come to understand that you are in the middle, and can't make your buddy tell you.
Panda Bear
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this.Montreal may be the most obnoxious city in the world . And I have done exactly what is described above when visiting Montreal.. I have heard "the bitch is crazy" and that was exactly what I was going for , so as to be left alone.
As to the op's original post/question, I tend to just say it like it is and let the chips fall where they may. Others have suggested you lie, but I would not. I would probably say something to the effect " I really appreciated your kindness by giving me the guidance you did when I ask, thank you, and I wish I could answer your question but if I did I would be breaking a promise I made to my friend, and I can't do that, just as I would not break a promise I made to you, but if I had gone on the hunt, which I did not, I would share everything with you, just as you did with me"
We tend to tell each other pretty openly where we think they should look when headed out, but our situation is completely different than the example you gave.
JShane
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My apologies for partially derailing but this conundrum and the appropriate replies are why I just don't ask. The other reason is generally everyone's secret hot spot (so long as its on public land) is out there to be found with time, effort, and boot leather.
I can assure you I have a very unique set of hunting skills, skills which I have acquired over a very long hunting career. I will find your spot, and I will kill that bull elk before you do.
I can assure you I have a very unique set of hunting skills, skills which I have acquired over a very long hunting career. I will find your spot, and I will kill that bull elk before you do.
2rocky
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Oh he wanted to volunteer it. He brought up specific ridges and roads. There was no way I was gonna go there and not check out "his spots". Hell, he wanted a report back on the places he told me to go. I told him what I saw.
He was asking me for information I didn't have and don't feel comfortable asking for. Truth is, if I draw the tag my buddy would share it with me. I'm making sure I am in the dark. I've over heard my boss on the phone mentioning the same landmarks he told me.
I was a little taken aback by my bosses lack of etiquette, as well as his reaction.
I take back what I said earlier.
Your boss is a blabbermouth.
Such promiscuity is how spots get blown up.
tzone
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