Couldn't agree with you more. The last thing these hunts need is more publicity. I've been hunting that country for over 20 years and it used to feel like an actual wilderness experience. I would still run into other hunters every few days, but the past few years its multiple hunters every day and orange and camps setup on every highpoint and ridge. I have also been finding garbage stashes that are from hunters much more often. I'm to the point that I hope the FS keeps the road in closed for good. The extra distance of hiking up that boulder field of a road should thin out the numbers a bit.
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Maybe it's a recency bias on my end as far as permits issued goes, although some data shows otherwise. But there is certainly more hunters, who are more effective, in these units year after year. I think anyone who has been hunting any one of these units over the last 10 years will say the same. And the amount of data available online, has exacerbated the issue, as more hunters are operating off of better information, stated or otherwise (background of photos), than they were 10-15 years ago. And although folks may feel coy about the data they are putting out there, each little nugget of a 197 pg thread, social media post, or of multiple podcasts, adds up over time, and lives in perpetuity. I'm just as guilty of it and will own that. This hunt is a general hunt, that gets talked about in some circles like it's a once in a lifetime or limited entry hunt, and my opinion is that it threatens the long term viability of the opportunity.
EYJONAS!
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Probably should just tell the Admin to delete this thread then. I'd be fine with it.
You know, at this point, I'd vote for that.
EYJONAS!
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Dick pics...What’s the correct procedure here? Do I have to start ranting about politics and cussing people out?
Probably a request from the OP.
EYJONAS!
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Amy chance you can request a closure on this BHR and a full deletion of this documentary.
Signed
Basically Everyone.
BAKPAKR
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I thought the 24 3/8” 303 ram shot on 10/15/21 was going to have the distinction of being the shortest but then I saw that a 24 2/8” ram was shot in 2010. Wow.
BAKPAKR
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Bambistew
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A lot has changed with the UL and sheep hunting in MT in the last 25? years. I think the bonus point system started in 97? The most important change was MT going to points and the changes they implemented after. Like sitting out, getting an UL permit (killing a sheep) and keeping your points. Prior to points you applied for an UL permit or a limited permit. There was no "OTC" tags, you committed June 1. You also couldn't sit out a year, if you did you lost your points, and you couldn't get an UL tag and not use your points. Lots of loopholes added to let people get the best of both.
Unit 301 used to issue about 130 UL permits every year from the late 80-late 90s before it closed. The rest of them floated between 50 and 80ish. The numbers tanked when the preference point system went into effect. Everyone wanted to build points thinking that was their only true way to getting a sheep tag so they chose that route. Many have figure out that they are so far behind the top point holders, that applying for a limited tag is pointless. So they have gone to UL. MT also issued at least 50% more limited ram tags a year, AND there was probably half as many people applying for them. I remember applying for the upper Root tags that had draw odds in the 5-7% range. I'm sure @BuzzH or @shoots-straight may remember even higher percentages in the 80s.
I think there is a lot more social media coverage on those units, but I don't think they are really any more popular than they were in the past. Its still just a camping trip for 99% of the participants, and always has been. Does it really matter if its on a quota if more people go? Is it really more competition, when the majority rarely make it off the trail?
What's funny is there has literally been 2-3 generations of hunters chasing UL rams prior to the Johnny-come-lately SM fame chasers.
Unit 301 used to issue about 130 UL permits every year from the late 80-late 90s before it closed. The rest of them floated between 50 and 80ish. The numbers tanked when the preference point system went into effect. Everyone wanted to build points thinking that was their only true way to getting a sheep tag so they chose that route. Many have figure out that they are so far behind the top point holders, that applying for a limited tag is pointless. So they have gone to UL. MT also issued at least 50% more limited ram tags a year, AND there was probably half as many people applying for them. I remember applying for the upper Root tags that had draw odds in the 5-7% range. I'm sure @BuzzH or @shoots-straight may remember even higher percentages in the 80s.
I think there is a lot more social media coverage on those units, but I don't think they are really any more popular than they were in the past. Its still just a camping trip for 99% of the participants, and always has been. Does it really matter if its on a quota if more people go? Is it really more competition, when the majority rarely make it off the trail?
What's funny is there has literally been 2-3 generations of hunters chasing UL rams prior to the Johnny-come-lately SM fame chasers.
EYJONAS!
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I'm going back through and deleting all involvement.
BuzzH
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Spot on, great post. I do think the preference system started in 2000. Yes, I remember when the breaks tags were 5-10% draw odds. Duncan Gilchrist even wrote in one of his books that the breaks would never produce a B&C ram, many believed that. Lower Rock Creek had some very good odds the first couple years as well.
I'd say this whole situation is just a microcosm of hunting out west in general. But honestly, I'm surprised about the lack of media about the UL. I would think there would way more articles and videos about the one DIY bighorn hunt for non residents. That being said, the lack of information means every single person who's ever googled this hunt gets suggested this thread, and I bet you almost all those guys who killed rams in there this year, and I don't know any personally, have read this thread.
