Failure of the North American Model of Conservation

[HighWildFree]

The elk were pretty uncooperative this morning so I had some time to think.

Lately, I've been thinking about what wildlife conservation and hunting will look like in the next 30-50 years in the West. Increasing populations with competing interests and values will likely lead to a focus on conserving habitat and increasing public access, decreasing opportunity.

The problem is that I can't see a future where Bison are restored to the landscape in a meaningful way that they function on the landscape as they historically have. There's a ton of social and political issues surrounding bison restoration. Biologically, it's pretty simple to restore bison, but the human dimension seems like more than our current conservation model can overcome

I think it could be argued that the NAMC fails when it comes to Bison restoration on this continent. What little bison restoration that has taken place has occurred either in private herds, tribal herds, or in national parks and monuments. There's minimal hunting interest (No Bison Unlimited or whatever). I know there's some pretty sharp folks on here and was just wondering what folks thought.

 

[rwc101]

Well, I'm a staunch advocate of killing all the cattle in Wyoming and replacing them with bison. Maybe I'll start BU.

 

[HSi-ESi]

My off-the-cuff response would be that the FWP Commission is too politicized for a true NAMC implementation, even though it's partially addressed with appointee's. So while the NAMC might not be failing - our interpretation (or at least in MT) is failing. It would be pretty amazing to have FWP completely funded and dissociated from political fights (thinking MO here).

 

[Irrelevant]

The APR is the best bet. https://www.americanprairie.org/project/bison-restoration

 

[seeth07]

Well, I'm a staunch advocate of killing all the cattle in Wyoming and replacing them with bison. Maybe I'll start BU.

Hmmm guilty of the Montana cattle killing? Lol got to love when threads pop up next to each other that relate to one's comments lol

 

[rwc101]

Hmmm guilty of the Montana cattle killing? Lol got to love when threads pop up next to each other that relate to one's comments lol

Nah. They'd be on the smoker if it were me.

 

[BrentD]

Reality bites. At least for Bison. But to glibly toss the NAMC (is that really a "thing"), into the trash heap is being pretty myoptic.

Against bison and woodland caribou and a few others, you could stack the success column with everything from turkeys and whitetails to gators and wolves and a few double fistfuls in between, not to mention those elk you were waiting on.

 

[seeth07]

Reality bites. At least for Bison. But to glibly toss the NAMC (is that really a "thing"), into the trash heap is being pretty myoptic.

Against bison and woodland caribou and a few others, you could stack the success column with everything from turkeys and whitetails to gators and wolves and a few double fistfuls in between, not to mention those elk you were waiting on.

Elk? You're funny. Restoration isn't even close. We are maybe 25% there if that.

 

[BrentD]

Elk? You're funny. Restoration isn't even close. We are maybe 25% there if that.

You much be forgetting what elk populations and looked like at the beginning of the 20th century and what the landscape looks like now. The Model has done remarkably well and then some. It won't get much better than it is now. There is no more land, no fewer people, and elk are already stocked to the gills in most of their habitat.

Like I said, Reality Bites and you won't see (nor would you probably like) a pre-Columbian North America - ever.

 

[HighWildFree]

Reality bites. At least for Bison. But to glibly toss the NAMC (is that really a "thing"), into the trash heap is being pretty myoptic.

Against bison and woodland caribou and a few others, you could stack the success column with everything from turkeys and whitetails to gators and wolves and a few double fistfuls in between, not to mention those elk you were waiting on.

I'm not saying we get rid of the conservation model that we've been using for the last century. It certainly has been successful in bringing game animals back from nearly being wiped out. I would say waterfowl, whitetail, and turkey has probably been the greatest success.

But to never question or identify what are the shortcomings of our conservation method in order to find better ways to conserve and restore wildlife, I would argue is myopic.

I find the bison case curious and that it may be a failing of the model in that it doesn't work for a large mammal that could currently thrive on the landscape. I mean what if elk management consisted of never allowing them to leave Yellowstone?

 

[BrentD]

I find the bison case curious and that it may be a failing of the model in that it doesn't work for a large mammal that could currently thrive on the landscape. I mean what if elk management consisted of never allowing them to leave Yellowstone?

Elk won't show up in your driveway to turn junior into pate' like a bison can and would.

Bison are problematic on the landscape much the same way that cattle, unrestricted by fences are problematic - only much more so. If you think free ranging herds of bison migrating hundreds of miles across the plains by the 10s of thousands is realistic, man, what I can I say?

 

[BWALKER77]

Bison will never be wide spread accross the landscape because they are not compatible with cattle ranching.

 

[LuketheDog]

The elk were pretty uncooperative this morning so I had some time to think.
...

I know there's some pretty sharp folks on here and was just wondering what folks thought.

I think you should go back to focusing on those elk. Historical millions (or even thousands) of bison running unchecked through prairie ranch land is a pipe dream, and not at all indicative of a failure of our model of management.

 

[come2elmo]

Maybe read this thread. It got locked at 257. I imagine things haven’t changed much in 6 years.

Armed Threats on Bison?

I dont like to deal in rumors, I prefer facts, documented facts. But ever since the bison working group meeting, which was supposed to take place the 15th and 16th of April was cancelled, people have asked why. I had heard that it was cancelled because the ag/ranchers were threatening to...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[2ski]

There's so much working against that, that makes it problematic. Fences. Danger of the animal. At least a bear can have some fear of humans. Even if ranching as we know it wasn't a barrier, I think those two alone make it impossible. Free ranging Bison just can't happen.

 

[BWALKER77]

The costs for fencing/maintaining a token bison heard on any decent sized patch of public land would be enormous. Not prudent at all given the realities of FWP's budget. Not to mention the fact that if you did proceed along this path you have basically reduced bison to livestock.
Let's face it. As much as I would love to see bison roaming all over Montana and especially hunting them, it's just not compatible with modern Montana.

 

[woodsman]

I would suggest the primary factor is "cultural carrying capacity" (human tolerance). Humans that do not hunt for their protein would never allow it. Even folks that support hunting, but do not hunt themselves, rarely support initiatives that increase big game populations. Manicured lawns and sparkling vehicles will always win out in today's society. Ranchers and ag farmers that do so for profit are also huge roadblocks for increasing any big game population. I do not see this as a failure of the NAMWC but rather the result of increasing human populations.

 

[BWALKER77]

I would suggest the primary factor is "cultural carrying capacity" (human tolerance). Humans that do not hunt for their protein would never allow it. Even folks that support hunting, but do not hunt themselves, rarely support initiatives that increase big game populations. Manicured lawns and sparkling vehicles will always win out in today's society. Ranchers and ag farmers that do so for profit are also huge roadblocks for increasing any big game population. I do not see this as a failure of the NAMWC but rather the result of increasing human populations.

I disagree in regards to the population at large not supporting an expansion of Bison from their current constraints. The main road block is the ranching community. Bison are simply not compatible with ranching for the most part.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Things I've thought about while smoldering in a blind, in only my underwear on a water hole for antelope:

1. Are there only an abundance of lope here because of the man made water supply for black shit ball cows?
2. If there wasn't any black shit ball cows drinking gallons at a time would there be more natural water left in the draws and coulees for the lope?
3. If it was Buff instead of black shit ball cows who would make sure there was water for the lope(or the buff)?
4. How did the lope and Buff get along before black shit ball cows, was there plenty of water for all?

I'm not sure this experiment has been tested. But the thoughts help pass the time, sometimes the heat gets to me.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Have you ever had a black shit ball bull poke his nose in your blind? The several seconds passed between whacking him on the nose with an arrow and the hope he doesn't run the blind over and stomp you are priceless.