elk recovery.

[JoseCuervo]

CJ,

If you are now changing the topic of this post to the question of people using pick-ups to haul their Elk 100 miles back to town and the Freezer, you are now as looney as Lostagain.

I honestly have never heard anybody say they have improved as a hunter, since they stuck their Fat-Ass on an ATV. I do know some people who kill one from an ATV, and then they are convinced forever, that you can kill Deer from ATVs, and they never get off of the machines.

Honestly, when I am solo hunting, I always throw an ATV or a Motor Cycle in the back of the pick-up. I once had two flat tires on a hunt, and since that day, I have been a bit more careful of being able to get back to town from a hunting trip. But I still don't need to use it to recover the animals.

 

[cjcj]

Gunner, i might be "looney" but that is a differant topic, i am not changing the "topic" but since i started it why would you have a problem if i did? we are still talking about "elk recovery" arn`t we? The fact is "most' hunters do use an ATV/truck etc. to recover elk when they can. From what i have seen the people who have [not used] an atv/truck to recover them are in the minority.think about what i said about all of the [whole] elk hanging in tree`s and elk in the back of trucks heading back to camp/or town. i know there are some who "claim" they have "never" used a truck/atv to recover an elk, but just give me a straight answer.Do most hunters use an truck/atv or not? Or do i need to start a new "topic" Yes or No.

 

[JoseCuervo]

CJ,

My guess is the difference between Idaho and Arizona. In AZ, you must be able to drive to your Elk. In the parts of Idaho where I typically hang out, that isn't possible.

I rarely see a whole Elk in a pick-up, or hanging on a meat pole. Even the Fat-Asses who use ATV's will halve them, or quarter them, just to get them on the racks.

Maybe the terrain in AZ allows for driving to the kill, but that is kind of rare in Idaho, in my opinion.

 

[T Bone]

My first bull stumbled and croaked right in the middle of a logging road. It was loaded whole into the back of my Dad's GMC. My biggest bull to date was packed out on horses. The other 11 elk I've tagged have come out on my back.

For what its worth, my opinion of the majority of ATV hunters isn't real high. Many units in Idaho have laws that ATV's are to be used for game recovery ONLY. ATVers see that as a green light for riding all over God's creation. Pisses me off to no end to backpack into an area and hear ATV's buzzing around. Then they ride up and ask if you've seen any.....When brought to their attention that they are breaking the law, they shrug their shoulders and say " I pay taxes too". They know they are breaking the law.

Of the few instances I've witnessed where poaching has occurred they were all ATV'ers that had game right in front of them and saw the ATV as a quick way out.

In Idaho, (the only state I've hunted elk in) I've seen very few whole elk in trucks. Most are boned, or at least quartered.

If it's done legally, I have no problem with using motorized vehicles for hunting.

If I offended any of you ATV proponents, I'm OK with that.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-25-2003 13:59: Message edited by: T Bone ]</font>

 

[Michaelr]

I gotta call bullchit on a bunch of you super macho studs

The bullshit is getting real deep around here!!!!!
Where the heck are my waders??

OOOO CHIT, now I'm going to be in trouble for wearing waders

Real men fish in ICE cold water in only their underwear

All you fuggers know that if it is legal and you can, you will!!!!!!!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-25-2003 15:06: Message edited by: michaelr ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

mike, what part of anything posters have said here is BS? Maybe you don't think it's possible to pack out an elk without an ATV. I expect you're the type to want to drive right up to anything you're lucky enough to hit.

 

[Michaelr]

Itchaca,

Guess what??
Out of probably a dozen deer and elk that I have taken in the last however many years, only one deer was recovered with a atv, in a legal area during mid day, imagine that

My calling b.s. is simple. Everybody will use the most effecient legal method at their disposal to retrieve game. To suggest or imply that there is something wrong with, or that it is unethical to do so is a bunch of crap.
This year is a great example, the weather here has been in the upper 70's, how long would it take to spoil an elk?
If I have the option of driving to my game or having part of it spoil while I prove to all the S.I. posters how macho I am, I think I will drive to it and get it out of the hills and taken care of.
If it is in a place that is illegal, or conditions don't permit I will hump it out.
one easy way (if there is snow on the ground) is a bath tub toboggon, I have used horses, one of those wheeled carts, and backpacks.
whatever is most effecient

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-26-2003 14:49: Message edited by: michaelr ]</font>

 

[cjcj]

Good one Michaeir! I also believe that to be true [use the most efficiant way] if it`s legal to do so and your not hurting the environment, Why not? I wonder how much meat all of the "macho" men waste, and leave behind. Hell i even saw the bones up and freeze them for my dogs. They lovem and nothing is wasted, not even the head or hide is wasted when you pick up the "whole" elk.

 

[Ithaca 37]

In Idaho you're somewhat limited in where you can drive a motorized vehicle. It's also unethical to be driving off established trails or roads, even if it is legal. That's where many of the problems start---with guys deciding they're too lazy to pack out an animal so it's OK to drive right up to it. Then you've got tracks and the next fatass comes along and decides that's a trail for him to drive up.

If the weather is so hot there's a chance meat will spoil don't hunt. You never know when you'll wound something and it will take six hours to find it, by then it's dark and you can't get it out til the next day, no matter what you're using. The excuse that you have to use an ATV because you don't want the meat to spoil is a real lame one. If it's so hot you have to worry about meat spoiling just don't hunt.

 

[Michaelr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If the weather is so hot there's a chance meat will spoil don't hunt <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm have you looked at the regulations??

There isn't alot of choice as to when you can hunt. Some of the general seasons are only days long. I didn't hunt elk this year for that reason.
But my wife drew a late season cow permit so all is good

 

[BuzzH]

Jesus H. Christ, if you're such a sorry assed hunter that you cant keep an elk from spoiling in 70 degree weather...I'd tell you to quit hunting altogether.

I've killed several elk with high temps. just bone them, and get them cooled quick and in good heavy game bags. Hang the meat off the ground in the shade and no problem. The bull I killed this year the temperature at my truck at 6 pm was 73 degrees, I'd imagine it was nearly 80 when I killed it. Didnt spoil a single ounce of meat and I left half of it in a game bag over-night in the sticks. My buddy in AZ arrowed a bull at 92 degrees and never lost an ounce of elk meat...and also didnt use an ATV to haul it out either.

What a lame excuse for ATV's...really its not an excuse or a justification of any kind.

Oh, and Michael, it isnt about being macho its about having and living by a set of ethics and knowing what your doing...something very few, if any, atver's know anything about.

 

[cjcj]

I have to agree with ya Buzz, any game meat can be cooled down if handled properly, i think "most" hunters [not all] know that, i have even seen a whitail deer in the back of a truck that wasn`t even gutted! and plenty hanging with the hide on in warm weather because some dumbass thought it "looked" better that way. But you still can`t "hide" from the fact that if "no" laws are broken then in the "eyes" and "ethics" of G&F it is ok to use a ATV/Truck to recover an elk/deer/antelope or whatever. thats why they have laws/regs so sportsman have parameters in which to conduct "THEIR" hunt.

 

[JoseCuervo]

CJ,

There is nothing wrong with using an ATV to haul meat out where it is legal to do so, and generally that is on established roads. The problem is, that the Elk that the Fat-Ass road hunter shot, wandered off 100 yards, so he thinks it won't hurt much to ride 100 yards off.

And then the next guy sees the tracks of the aTV headed off, so he rides down them, thinking it is a trail. He soon loses the tracks, but keeps going, and soon he is back 1/2 mile.... And so on, and so on...

Idaho is cracking down on the off road stuff, and the hunting on the ATV, so hopefully it will get better.

I am fully aware there are trails that are ATV only, and if someone wants to get the quarters to the trail, and then pack it out, more power to them.

And if I want to persuade the Forest Service to close the trail from Sept. 15, to March 30, then I can do that to. That is just part of the system of Public Lands.

But, in my observations, people don't use ATVs for "Recovery", instead, after a 1/2 day of walking, they say "Hell, I could cover more ground on the ATV...", and they soon are riding 20 miles a day, never getting off the ATV.

I work with a Fat-Ass who killed a nice buck last year off his ATV. This year he bought his 12 year old boy an ATV, and every weekend they have been out "hunting". He comes back on Monday, and says they covered 40 miles, and didn't see a deer within range. He is now convinced, by killing one last year, that ATVs are the only way to kill one, and his boy will NEVER walk, as Dad is teaching him to ride ATVs as a method of hunting.

 

[cjcj]

Well i have to agree with ya Gunner,that fat ass guy you work with is setting a piss-poor example for his kid, and thats a "big" problem with todays kids in general. no more p.e. is required,video games replaceing, football etc. in the streets.Their is a downside to technology, and that would include quad`s,they have tended to make alot of hunters lazy [but not all] my guess is things are alot worse in idaho than in az, we have alot of them "sandblaster" types who do not hunt,we also have alot of farmers who use them, and we do have quite a few hunters that just use them for "game recovery" Lets wait and see how the court "handles" the dickheads that Buzz has turned in, Don`t you guy`s have a 1-800 # to call to turn in illegal activity?

 

[Michaelr]

Buzzy,
Just an fyi...
I have taken my fair share of elk, I have never lost any to spoilage.

My whole point through the last few posts is quite simple, even though you seem to not get it.

It is great that you have your own code of ethics, I applaud you for them. My own are probably not far removed from yours.
But, You can't expect everybody to have the same as you. Alot of guys just aren't as dedicated, they don't put as much into it nor do they care as much as guys like you, me and I would guess most who post here. For them it is more like a vacation or a camping trip or just a chance to get away from the daily grind.
And they have just as much right to be that way, as you do to be a very dedicated sportsmen.
If we push them guys away we loose their voice, and we don't have a loud enough voice as it is.
That is why I don't bitch about a guy who uses THE MOST EFFECIENT LEGAL METHOD AT HIS DISPOSAL. Those who choose to break the law need to be punished, I would totally support extreemly harsh penalties.

 

[cjcj]

Another good post Michaeir, it was straight to the point! that is why in "my opinion" Buzz is so damn hardheaded and narrow-minded, he doesn`t care what the "general" population thinks/wants its either the way Buzz thinks/feels or its wrong.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Well, I guess I will comment...I do understand Buzz, Ithaca, and other's frustration with illegal and/or untethical use of ATV's. I am just as much against the illegal use of ATV's (or any motor vehicle) as anybody, but I don't see what is wrong with using an ATV in the same way you would use a 4x4 pickup, SUV, Jeep, etc. There are many areas that have roads open to motor vehicles, but they are very rough, rocky roads, and I would hate to beat the crap out of my $32,000 truck on some of these roads, and I don't own a Jeep. Plus, a 4 wheeler uses much less gas. I just bought a used Suzuki King Quad about 3 months ago, and mainly I got it because my girlfriend had one already and we wanted to be able to go riding together. But I will use it for hunting/scouting in areas where it is legal, and I see nothing wrong with it. Most of the roads I could drive in my truck, in 4 wheel drive and low range, but why do that when the 4 wheeler will do that sort of thing much better, and use a lot less fuel doing it?

 

[Ithaca 37]

I'm not against the legal use of ATVs, but I'll work to get the definition of "legal" changed. I don't think some of the legal uses are ethical, and that's only because the regulations haven't yet caught up with what's going on. The only answer is going to be restricting them to established and inventoried roads and trails. Anyone with any sense knows it's not good to be blazing new trails with ATVs, whether it's for meat recovery or anything else. The ATV riders with no consideration for the environment or other hunters are going to say, "Well, it's legal, so I'm going to do it.". What they should be saying is, "Well, it hasn't been made illegal yet because of slow moving gummint, so I'm going to take advantage of the situation while I can. Screw all the rest of ya."

As for all the talk about meat recovery and spoilage; I think I'll start a topic up in "Elk Hunting" about it.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-27-2003 22:32: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Doug]

"Well, it's legal, so I'm going to do it."
I like that statement so much that I'm going to use it for my signature. I don't understand what makes your hunt better if you carry an elk on your back for 14 miles. Does it make it taste better or what? Hell I sometimes pass on a shot if I don't think I can drive my truck up to the animal. I don't break any laws and I'm respectful of the landowners who let me hunt. What the hell else matters? I bet when some of you high browed ethical cocksuckers get old and crippled up, that your attitudes will change a little.

 

[cjcj]

Good Post Doug!