Don’t kill wolves – just keep them away

[Moserkr]

Same wolves as in same d.n.a., absolutely. But from different geographical regions they could be different sized, slightly, due to habitat and prey. I think thats the basis of both sides of the argument. In just a few generations, they should adapt to their new habitat to survive. I like the idea of reintroducing all species so long as they are managed without political interference, which is seemingly impossible. Its hard to argue the negative impact the wolf reintroduction had on the ungulate population though. Just hope that it finds balance between survival, habitat capacity, civilization, and unfortunately last - hunting. We get the short end of the stick which is why sharing resources with another top predator is difficult.

 

[more_cowbell]

Mammologists don't agree on the number of subspecies of American wolves. It's between like 5 and 25. I tend to believe it's on the lower side.

I do know that the average weight of adult wolves introduced into Yellowstone was 108 lbs.

Unsure of accuracy but this website ranks wolves by size, saying some category of "Northern Rockies" wolf is smaller than a "Northwestern wolf", which is the largest. I'm not saying these are different species, rather I'm piggybacking onto another poster's point about different regions. https://a-z-animals.com/blog/the-10-largest-wolves-in-the-world/

>>>>The Northwestern wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis) is known by many names, including the Mackenzie Valley wolf, Canadian timber wolf, and Alaskan timber wolf. It is the largest wolf in the world, with the average male weighing 137 lb, while the average female weighs 101 lb. They range between 79lb and 159 lb, and exceptionally large specimens have measured 175 lb. That size makes the Northwestern wolf the largest wolf species in the world. With a length up to 7 feet and reaching heights of almost 36 inches tall, they dwarf most of their kin.

Northwestern wolves range from Alaska through the western regions of Canada and down into the northwest United States. They prey on elk and have been documented stampeding a herd to separate young elk from their parents. Northwestern wolves are also known to hunt bison, although they usually only target the young or weak in a herd.

Currently, the Northwestern wolf is not in significant danger. While the hunting and trapping of wolves do exist, its population is stable, especially in Canada, where it is most dominant.<<<<

Or maybe the ones in Oregon are from Montana, but found someone's iphone in the forest and started watching Hans and Franz:

 

[88man]

Mammologists don't agree on the number of subspecies of American wolves. It's between like 5 and 25. I tend to believe it's on the lower side.

I do know that the average weight of adult wolves introduced into Yellowstone was 108 lbs.

View attachment 267884

I'd be interested in seeing a similar 19th century table on whatever we're calling the native wolf. The "great plains wolf" that I assume everyone is comparing reintroduced wolves to is said to have been between 60 and 110 lbs, and the northern rocky mountain wolf is 85-115. I suspect those numbers are estimates though.

122lb male pup

 

[FI460]

122lb male pup

I'd imagine when they say "pup" they mean sub-adult. Don't figure they were releasing many young pups. Even so, that 122lb "pup" certainly falls into the range for whatever subspecies we want these wolves to be.

 

[mtmuley]

Are you saying they're not a bigger version than those in the 19th century [at least in Oregon]? Apologies if I missed some other debate.

I have never found any verifiable evidence that what you say is true. And I've tried. mtmuley

 

[mtmuley]

Mammologists don't agree on the number of subspecies of American wolves. It's between like 5 and 25. I tend to believe it's on the lower side.

I do know that the average weight of adult wolves introduced into Yellowstone was 108 lbs.

View attachment 267884

I'd be interested in seeing a similar 19th century table on whatever we're calling the native wolf. The "great plains wolf" that I assume everyone is comparing reintroduced wolves to is said to have been between 60 and 110 lbs, and the northern rocky mountain wolf is 85-115. I suspect those numbers are estimates though.

Wonder how much they weighed before being caged and fed prior to release?
I also have talked with a USFWS employee that was part of the reintroduction. Early wolves weighed more as they basically just laid around and fed. After the packs started to form disperse more they returned to a more normal size. His info. The gentleman taught the wolf trapping certification class I took. He knew his shit about wolves. mtmuley

 

[OverlordBear]

We have enough Wolves. Their decedents are in almost every home in America. We have no need for Wolves on the landscape the worst part about wolves is that they out compete mtn lions and grizzly bears because they run in packs. I d rather have more grizz and lions than wolves. Wolves aren’t special just another dog.

 

[FI460]

Wonder how much they weighed before being caged and fed prior to release?
I also have talked with a USFWS employee that was part of the reintroduction. Early wolves weighed more as they basically just laid around and fed. After the packs started to form disperse more they returned to a more normal size. His info. The gentleman taught the wolf trapping certification class I took. He knew his shit about wolves. mtmuley

No doubt. Wolves used to chasing after deer and elk and fighting other packs suddenly being fed beef in a pen. Talk about fat and happy.

 

[more_cowbell]

Wonder how much they weighed before being caged and fed prior to release?
I also have talked with a USFWS employee that was part of the reintroduction. Early wolves weighed more as they basically just laid around and fed. After the packs started to form disperse more they returned to a more normal size. His info. The gentleman taught the wolf trapping certification class I took. He knew his shit about wolves. mtmuley

What wolves did he help reintroduce? Where?

Sounds like he'd be able to direct you to the source of info to verify that earlier wolves were bigger. He got that info from somewhere I assume.

Unverified cite above https://a-z-animals.com/blog/the-10-largest-wolves-in-the-world/ makes distinctions in sizes of wolves in different regions.

I'll quit whining about the wolves people love as long as they don't affect their own elk hunting, but keep in mind in places like Oregon, mismanagement or politically-driven non-management (not scientific management) of predators like wolves [edit: though poaching doesn't help either], is a reason why out of state hunters are going to states like ID, CO, MT, and WY. Some NE Oregon units have a bull to cow ratio of 15:100. If you're a local of one of those other states, I don't blame you if you're tired of seeing out of state plates parked everywhere. But wildlife management in other states like Oregon is a factor in pushing hunters towards you.

 

[antlerradar]

The rug I have on the wall in the dinning room measures 64 inches from tip of the nose to the tip of the tail, No idea if that is big or small or if the pelt came from a pup or an adult. I do know it is form a wolf that lived in eastern Montana a hundred years ago.

 

[mtmuley]

What wolves did he help reintroduce? Where?

Wolves were reintroduced in two places. Central Idaho and Yellowstone National Park. mtmuley

 

[TheJason]

The gentleman taught the wolf trapping certification class I took. He knew his shit about wolves.

Carter Niemeyer?

 

[TheJason]

The biggest wolves are around Forks, Washington.

 

[mtmuley]

Carter Niemeyer?

I can't remember his name. He also had a plane and flew counts. Of course he took out problem wolves too. His stories were really interesting. He probably got sick of me grilling him with questions. I do know he lives in Idaho. mtmuley

 

[TheJason]

I can't remember his name. He also had a plane and flew counts. Of course he took out problem wolves too. His stories were really interesting. He probably got sick of me grilling him with questions. I do know he lives in Idaho. mtmuley

I would bet money that’s him. He’s a hell of an interesting guy. For that matter, so is Ed Bangs.

 

[mtmuley]

He’s a hell of an interesting guy.

I could have talked to him for hours. Especially about wolf behavior. Some of his stories about flying counts were pretty interesting to say the least. Not to mention how to release a mountain lion out of your wolf trap. If he still does the class it's well worth it even if you will never trap. mtmuley

 

[tjones]

If you want to know how wolves got here and much of the details. Try this.

Wolfer: A Memoir: Niemeyer, Carter, Fischer, Beth, Niemeyer, Jenny, Lane, Dee, Sartore, Joel, Niemeyer, Jenny, Evans, Nicholas: 9780615409481: Amazon.com: Books

Wolfer: A Memoir [Niemeyer, Carter, Fischer, Beth, Niemeyer, Jenny, Lane, Dee, Sartore, Joel, Niemeyer, Jenny, Evans, Nicholas] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Wolfer: A Memoir

www.amazon.com

If you buy into the Lobo Watch nonsense it’s probably not the book for you.


EDIT:muley and JLS are way ahead of me.

 

[dgc1963]

I do know I want one in my game room real bad

 

[88man]

The rug I have on the wall in the dinning room measures 64 inches from tip of the nose to the tip of the tail, No idea if that is big or small or if the pelt came from a pup or an adult. I do know it is form a wolf that lived in eastern Montana a hundred years ago.

I got a coyote pelt that measures over 60 inches tip to tip. It weighted in at 49.5lbs and was a domestic sheep killer

 

[Hem]

I like wolves.
Three Forks Wolves.
Other ones don't bother me much.