Just more Utah garbage

[CPAjeff]

Thanks for the summary. If I understand this correctly residents can pick up general hunt tags each year? Though I would imagine those hunts are probably not very well managed

General elk, yes. General deer tags are through a drawing so it’s not an every year type of deal - sorry I left out that detail. General units are managed for opportunity, not quality. Still, a few good animals get killed in most units each year.

 

[1_pointer]

I meant why does DLL charge for people to come hunt cow elk on its lands?

It’s not quite a state issue since the cwmu has so much say over its seasons and is given so many tags to sell. It’s one website pretty well lays out that’s it’s a playground for those with money

Definitely could have changed, but when I was working with DL&L, folks that drew the CMWU tags did not have to pay any fees other than the state tag fees, bulls or cows. Back then, they gave all of the antlerless tags to the drawings as that allowed them to keep more of the antlered tags. But that's been over a decade ago...

Elk numbers and keeping them on the ranch, especially in the winter, was a hot topic in the area back then. Some of the neighbors were not happy with the situation then. I can't imagine that part has changed much.

 

[GigiBobert]

I believe the dominant religion in Utah owns the DL&L. 80% plus of the elected office holders in Utah are members of the dominant religion. I think they can, and do, whatever they please. Mystery solved? I've never liked that set up over in the Occupied Territory.

 

[whatnot]

There was no chopper keeping elk inside a CWMU. These are not high fence areas. The elk are free to come and go as they choose. Most will stay because it's the best gig in town.

spewing lies doesn't help anything.

I lay the blame squarely on the UDWR. There are ways to get these elk killed during the structured seasons already in place. They can and do strongarm some CWMU's into killing more antlerless animals. That is what should have been done in this case. If the Deseret was in jeopardy of losing bull tags, I guarantee they would have found multiple ways to get their public hunter's success rate up.

Yeah.

Because DLL doesnt set their "seasons" and not hunt sundays in an effort to draw in and keep animals. Just coincidece.

Absolutley priceless. DLL sets up a closed, corporate retreat complete with guranteed repeat buisness(no waiting periods), and a 3 month season. But when THEY completely fail in managing THEIR AREA, then its the taxpayers job to come in and bail them out.

$53,000 NOT including dwr fuel, vehicles, salaries, and the corporate hunting preserves chip in $22,000. Joe public pays $30,000+ for a place they will never set foot on.

Then, after the public pays to correct. DLL failure, they get an additional 11 tags to sell(@$15-25k).

And WHY is this necessary? Winter 23' DLL elk took over the winter ground in henefer, echo, morgan, and tge deer paid the price. Now, DLL deer tag sales are hurting so joe public needs to remedy that situation for them.

The wealthiest entity in the mountain west(LDS) with the largest land holdings, just had to have the help. They couldnt afford the $53,000 price tag(the price of 2 bull hunts at DLL).

Isnt Utah grand? If your a corporte hunting company, it truly is

 

[elkantlers]

Yeah.

Because DLL doesnt set their "seasons" and not hunt sundays in an effort to draw in and keep animals. Just coincidece.

Absolutley priceless. DLL sets up a closed, corporate retreat complete with guranteed repeat buisness(no waiting periods), and a 3 month season. But when THEY completely fail in managing THEIR AREA, then its the taxpayers job to come in and bail them out.

$53,000 NOT including dwr fuel, vehicles, salaries, and the corporate hunting preserves chip in $22,000. Joe public pays $30,000+ for a place they will never set foot on.

Then, after the public pays to correct. DLL failure, they get an additional 11 tags to sell(@$15-25k).

And WHY is this necessary? Winter 23' DLL elk took over the winter ground in henefer, echo, morgan, and tge deer paid the price. Now, DLL deer tag sales are hurting so joe public needs to remedy that situation for them.

The wealthiest entity in the mountain west(LDS) with the largest land holdings, just had to have the help. They couldnt afford the $53,000 price tag(the price of 2 bull hunts at DLL).

Isnt Utah grand? If your a corporte hunting company, it truly is

Not sure what you're getting at, I wasn't defending the Deseret. I live 4 hours from it. I actually have never set foot on the property and most likely never will. I don't condone what they did or the way they went about it. I stated that the UDWR is to blame for not handling this in the right way. However, when you and others start throwing around lies, like no Sunday hunting or using a chopper or having high fences, just because you have a beef with a religious entity, I will bristle up. Here are the rules to the Deseret found with a quick google search. I don't see anything about hunting on Sunday. However, if that is their rule, it's their rule. They own the sandbox and can tell you when you get to play in it. They actually seem pretty straight forward and most would be good to follow in any type of hunting situation.

Deseret CWMU Hunting Rules & Guidelines​

THESE RULES & Guidelines APPLY FOR ALL THE DESERET HUNTS/HUNTERS​

• To ensure a quality hunting experience for all public hunters, all scheduling and inquiring must be done through the Deseret CWMU operator. Individual guides cannot schedule hunts or deviate from the information provided.
• Our goal is to provide you with a quality hunting experience. Your job is to enjoy the experience and conduct yourselves in a manner so that all other hunters & guests have a quality experience as well.
• Safety comes first.
• Hunting
  • Take time to shoot and sight in your rifle before your hunt. Know your rifle and your limitations.
  • Hunters are allowed to shoot one, and only one, animal for which they have a permit. Once you hit an animal and/or draw blood, that is your animal. Please be aware of your animal and its surroundings, and pick your shots carefully.
  • All hunters must abide by Utah state laws regarding wildlife. Click HERE for Utah Wildlife Laws.
  • All hunters and guests must always wear a hunter-orange hat and vest while hunting.
  • Unload firearms when not used (shooting at the big game species) and leave the action open.
  • Most other wildlife species found on Deseret are protected by state law and/or require special licenses or permits to ‘take’ these animals. Hunting other wildlife species of any kind is prohibited. This includes but is not limited to: coyotes, badgers, ground squirrels, foxes, upland birds, grouse, and waterfowl.
  • No pre-seasons scouting
  • Follow basic gun safety
    • Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
    • Treat every rifle as loaded (even if you don’t think it is).
    • No ammunition in the rifle chamber while driving, hiking, in camp, etc. (ammunition can be left in the magazine/clip)
    • Only put ammunition in the chamber when attempting to make a shot at the big game animal you have the permit for (then quickly remove chamber bullets).
    • Be aware of your surroundings while shooting. Do not shoot toward vehicles, hunters, and guest(s).
    • Do not rely on the gun’s safety.
    • Be sure of your target, your line of fire, and what lies beyond your target and what is beyond it.
• Vehicles/Driving & Roads etc
  • No ATVs, side-by-sides, snowmobiles, or other off-road vehicles are allowed on the ranch, even if they are street-legal (trucks/SUVs/cars only)
  • No horses, llamas, alpacas, goats, etc
  • We recommend a 4x4 vehicle with good off-road tires (chains are also highly recommended)
  • Hunters are not to drive off the main gravel roads or well-established two-tracks (these are clearly marked)
  • No driving past any road blockages. These include, but are not limited to, posted reflectors, locked gates, wood logs across the road, etc. This will be discussed further when you check in for your hunt.
  • All gates are to remain ‘as they were’ when you approached them. If they are open, leave them open; if they are closed, close them.
  • Be safe and courteous while driving on the roads. Drive respectively and cautiously.
  • Roads may be closed for safety reasons (Ie. extreme weather).
  • Care must be taken to avoid damage to Ranch roads.
  • No chasing, pursuing, pushing, herding, or harassing game with a vehicle.
  • The maximum driving speed is 25 mph.
• Camping/Campsite & Guide services
  • Camping on the property is allowed on most of the non-guided hunts. The bull elk and bull moose hunt are fully guided hunts and hunter will stay in the lodge on the property.
  • No alcoholic beverages.
  • No smoking (because of fire risk).
  • No open campfires.
  • No littering; hunters must remove all their casings, cans, trash, and debris from the premises.
  • Lodging, guide services, packing services, & food: available on the bull elk, bull moose, and for those hunters wanting the guided buck deer/buck pronghorn hunt. Guide services are also available for the guided antlerless elk hunt (no food and lodging)
• Guest Policy
  • The non-guided hunts (buck deer, buck pronghorn, non-guided antlerless elk) allow the hunter to bring two guests.
  • Only one vehicle is allowed per hunter/permit holder on all non-guided hunts. Two guests are allowed, but only one vehicle per hunter and their guest. Guests cannot have their own vehicle.
  • Guest must stay with the hunter at all times (within 100 feet).
  • See information on the guest policy by visiting each individual hunt species page. Click here for:
    • Bull Elk
    • Buck Deer
    • Bull Moose
    • Antlerless elk
• The Ranch
  • State laws protect livestock on Deseret Land and Livestock (DLL). Do not harm, harass, or shoot livestock. DLL may file civil charges against anyone for harassing, shooting, or harming livestock.
  • No fishing on the streams or ponds.
  • No other outdoor recreational activities are offered on the property during the hunts.
  • Respect the property and employees.
  • Shed antlers and “dead heads” are Deseret's property. Hunters or guests cannot pick up or remove them from the ranch.
  • Hunters and guests are responsible for familiarizing themselves with and understanding the CWMU’s boundaries.

 

[TheTone]

Not sure what you're getting at, I wasn't defending the Deseret. I live 4 hours from it. I actually have never set foot on the property and most likely never will. I don't condone what they did or the way they went about it. I stated that the UDWR is to blame for not handling this in the right way. However, when you and others start throwing around lies, like no Sunday hunting or using a chopper or having high fences, just because you have a beef with a religious entity, I will bristle up. Here are the rules to the Deseret found with a quick google search. I don't see anything about hunting on Sunday. However, if that is their rule, it's their rule. They own the sandbox and can tell you when you get to play in it. They actually seem pretty straight forward and most would be good to follow in any type of hunting situation.

maybe it is kind of a dwr issue, they’re the ones that have allowed these big ranches to basically dictate seasons and harvest on their properties. Maybe the state should just set seasons as they see fit from a biological perspective and tell places like DLL if they don’t like the states seasons they can pound sand. But everyone knows that will never happen in UT

 

[1_pointer]

maybe it is kind of a dwr issue, they’re the ones that have allowed these big ranches to basically dictate seasons and harvest on their properties. Maybe the state should just set seasons as they see fit from a biological perspective and tell places like DLL if they don’t like the states seasons they can pound sand. But everyone knows that will never happen in UT

Not a whole lot of maybe about it, IMO. The DWR manages the tag numbers in the hunting units; CWMU (emphasis on the U) included. Manipulation of tag numbers by sex could have been done to meet objectives.

That said, I am not ignorant to the fact that the wildlife bio at DL&L could likely sway the opinion of the DWR when allotting tag numbers or setting season dates.

 

[Ropinop]

So on the DL&Al issue saying they don’t use choppers to push the elk back onto there property is a complete lie. I have seen them flying lower along there boarders which does push the elk farther into there land. I was on a youth bull elk hunt a few years back. Opening morning of this hunt we got on the mountain way before light using onX to make darn sure we was a good distance away from there boarder . We could hear the elk bugling and causing a ruckus . There was a herd moving towards open ground coming from deseret . It was about 10 minutes from legal shooting light . There wasn’t any other hunters close to use on the public land side . Within that 10 minutes there was several guides/ employees of deseret on four wheelers driving back and forth along the road ways to keep the elk from even thinking about coming onto public ground . I thought that was kinda weird . After 3+ hours of thinking they would stop and leave . I was wrong . I left that area and went farther into public ground . Finding several other kids with the youth tags and their fathers or brothers helping them . Having the same experience I had for opening morning. I decided to head towards home for the day . On my way I seen one of the men on there four wheelers pulled off the edge of the dirt road. I stopped and told him thanks for messing up a kids first opening morning elk hunt. He stated that he was hired for a chunk of $$ to do nothing but drive back and forth to keep the elk from moving off Deseret.