do we start worying about trump for president?

[James Riley]

double tap

 

[Devil Diver Down]

^ Pretty much sums it up to me.

In my early adulthood I was more idealistic and definitely leaned more Dem. As I got older, I craved smaller government and leaned a little GOP but it's like they're trying hard to alienate people (including me) with the party platform and the tie-ins with the hardline religious right or others who don't represent my views. So, the last dozen years or so I've been a split down the middle Independent voter - voting either side of the ballot. This year I don't want to vote either side.

Anyone that thinks they've won something when Hillary of Trump win must go to the County Fair for the booby prizes. People say that voting third party is a waste of a vote, but I say it's an investment in the future. It sends a message that the 2 clowns in the middle ring are unacceptable choices.

#ThirdPartyMan

 

[Eric Albus]

Voting 3rd party might make some feel better, but a third party vote is a vote against Trump. Generally speaking only thinking folks and those attempting to make a point they don't understand vote 3rd party....

I am disgusted by those who support a Clinton presidency. She is a proven LIAR, corrupt to the core. I wonder if the people who lost children in the Bengazhi incident are "voting Hillary, so my grandkids have a place to hunt"....ever think there may be more important issues?

Trump may not be a great candidate, but he is the greatest candidate we currently have (that has a chance to win). So waste your votes to prove a point with a 3rd party.

If Hillary is elected, my vote will be for succession.

 

[MTGomer]

We all have an opinion and you've stated yours. I disagree, I think you're wrong, I think I'm right and that's just the way it is. I have better things to do than go tit for tat with you or anyone else on this discussion because it's going nowhere and it's a waste of my time.

Don't confuse opinion with fact. I stated fact.

'I think elk hunting is better than deer hunting' is an opinion.

Any chance you'll enlighten us in the difference between Cheney and Clinton?

As to the OP's original question. I don't think you have to worry about a trump presidency. I don't think there will be one.
I also don't think we're doomed if Hillary is elected. Just another 4 years of mediocrity and status quo. The Pres shouldn't have enough power to change a heck of a lot anyway.
I do kind of worry what kind of R will be the 2020 nominee after 4 years of Clinton? A particular Cuban land grabber comes to mind.

 

[bobbydean]

I have been voting since 1972. In college leaned Democrat, went independent for awhile, and Republican since 1980.

This is the worst choice we have had for a Presidential choice that I have had in my life.

Voting Trump as he is the lesser of two evils.

Hilliary scares the hell out of me! A 3rd party vote is a wasted vote.

 

[airlocksniffer]

The Republican Party platform calls for the sale/transfer of public land. As nauseous as Clinton makes me, I'm voting Dem primarily because of this.

Additionally, I think most of us can agree that the election can't come soon enough, regardless of who wins.

Nice goats on the antelope meat pole thread....

 

[mplane72]

IMO. The real danger to Trump is not what happens IF, very big IF, he becomes President. I'm more concerned about the effect he will have on the congressional elections. I can deal with Hillary as long as the other side controls the congress. Trump is putting that in question.

I registered republican just to vote for Trump in the caucus with a very uneasy feeling in my stomach. Mostly that was a vote against Cruz. I actually got on board with him for a while but that ride is over. I will not vote for him. I know many that have come to the same conclusion.

Hopefully someone in the republican party will wake up after this fiasco is over and realize they have gone way to far over the edge. Things are changing in this country, as they always have, you can stand on the side crying about it or you can get involved and have some influence.

Really don't care that much about who is president, as long as they don't send my sons off to war, I make my way in spite of them not because of them. Congress is the real problem. The gerrymandered districts of both partys are dividing and choking this country.

3rd party is NOT a waste.

 

[Tkaldahl2000]

If all the people who said voting third party is a waste of a vote would vote third party we would be very close to a majority. I predict that if Clinton wins we will see 4 more years of gridlock, but the senate can't delay confirmation of Supreme Court Justices for four years. Right now Scalia has to be replaced, I've heard rumors that Clarence Thomas is ready to retire, and two of the "liberal" justices are ready to step down. That is really going to impact the balance of the court, and they seem to be more political and less judicial with every new nomination. I also predict that we will be amazed by how fast the senate can confirm Obama's nominee if Clinton wins the election.

 

[Nameless Range]

I'm not worried about a Trump presidency because the guy has little chance. It is widely known that Clinton is corrupt as hell, and yet Trump is so abhorrent to most Americans that she still leads, so I don't see a scandal bringing her down.

The Republicans are dropping the ball. Clinton is a weak and corrupt candidate. So what do the voters give the GOP? They nominate a candidate who by all rights is a liberal and acts like spoiled brat. A moderate Republican would destroy Clinton if Trump would get out of the way. But Trump is "anti-establishment", the establishment is the problem, and people seem to believe that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Unfortunately, that is fallacious logic.

I'll say it again. Clinton is corrupt and will be a terrible president. But to the Trump supporters, What about the "establishment" is wrong within our political system? Once you've identified whats wrong with the establishment in our political system, explain through what mechanism will a Trump presidency fix those things? The establishment may dislike Trump, but he embodies everything we don't like about them. In fact either he or Clinton will just exacerbate those things: Corruption, incestuous dealings, a disregard for the average American, etc... It's like the ALC and land transfer; It sounds good initially but when you drill down to how this will work in specifics you find hope in one hand and $#!t in the other.

As has been pointed out above, there are certain ways in which the parties aren't discernable, but there are ways they are too. Some would call those discernably different issues "wedge issues".

No one knows what the end of the world will look like. But to many it is plausible it looks like Trump. An egotistic, vengeful, unpredictable leader with access to nukes. When it comes to this election, for most Americans - Evil, Corrupt and Sane is preferable to Evil, Corrupt, and Insane. That's why Hillary Clinton will in all likelihood be our next president.

 

[James Riley]

If all the people who said voting third party is a waste of a vote would vote third party we would be very close to a majority.

Correct. And closer to a multi-party system. Maybe we could even get to run-off elections. Voting for a Democrat or a Republican is a wasted vote. It allows the owners to continue to own us.

 

[LuketheDog]

Good post Randy.

It's very clear to me that there are numerous people posting on here that never read beyond the headlines on the front page, aka 'sound-bite' types. I sincerely hope that you learn to look deeper into the facts and issues at hand in any election, regardless of the side you're on, instead of merely relying on emotion to drive your choices.

"Corruption, incestuous dealings, a disregard for the average American, etc..." -it cracks me up that these words are consistently thrown at Trump (maybe true, maybe not), when the other candidate is Hillary-freaking-Clinton! I mean, come on! Even if you love the old bag you KNOW this describes her even better than Trump!

 

[2ski]

"I'm disgusted by those who support Clinton"
"You're a useful idiot and an enabler....."
"Don't confuse opinion with fact. I stated fact." (it was opinion)

Such nice civil things to say. Sounds like things Trump would say.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/10/opinions/philippine-president-opinion-ghitis/ Interesting article about the Philippine president. Especially the first paragraph gets your attention. It makes a person think a little. Not saying that's what Trump would be, but still...

I've never understood the Hilary hate, as much as it is. She's been hated badly since she was the first lady. So I take it with half a grain of salt when people hate her as a crook. Did you hate her that much when she was first lady? If yes, then.....well I don't know what to say. People could agrue that some shady things happened with W. Do you hate on him as vehemently? Honestly, Trump scares the heck out of me. Hilary will keep the status quo.

 

[JLS]

Isn't the term "useful idiot" kind of an oxymoron?

 

[Washington Hunter]

If you don't understand the Hillary hate, you haven't been paying attention to the news. She and her husband are corrupt and have become rich by doing nothing but being politicians. Do you think they acquired their hundreds of millions of dollars honestly?

What about Hillary's illegal email server she used while she was Secretary of State? Does it bother you that she put our national security at great risk by her recklessness? If it were anyone else who did that, they would be in prison right now.

If she becomes president our country will still be at great risk due to her illegal email server. How many countries hacked into that email server and now have the ability to blackmail Hillary if she becomes president?

 

[James Riley]

Isn't the term "useful idiot" kind of an oxymoron?

Not really. Most idiots are useful to someone. Now, "wise idiot" would be an oxymoron. Although Forest Gump . . .

 

[Irrelevant]

I'll throw a bomb out there and support the two party system. Fundamentally it's more stable than a multi party system. It generally forces candidates and platform to the middle in order to get 50-ish percent of the voters votes. Under a, lets say, four party system, you could have the leader of the country be voted in by only a small fraction of the population (maybe 20%) and that small fraction could be on the extreme side of either end of the political spectrum, and every four years it could swing wildly from one end to the other. No thanks, I prefer the smallest swings possible, even if that means no who thinks like me is ever elected. A little more introspection by more people and fewer people would think they have all the answers and we might actually get to solving some problems.

I'll also take another stab of some of the actual problems with out government and, in my opinion, some potential solutions. More and more districts have more and more lopsided to one party or the other (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-political-process-isnt-rigged-it-has-much-bigger-problems/) we need to stop allowing constant redistricting to ensure parties "lockup" districts; less and less people are voting for the best person regardless of party lines and are sticking with just one side (I have no idea how counteract this); fewer people are voting, voting and civil duty need to be taught just as strongly as math and English; and there's too many damn people in the house (how the hell are 435 people or even 218 people ever supposed to agree on anything). Term limits for congress is a bad idea, who would want a heart surgeon who just started the job and used to deliver mail to work on them or their family? Nobody, you want someone who understands it, the process, the issues, the players, better than the rest of use. Same with the mantra "we need a Joe 6-pack in the white house, a normal guy like you and me..." no we want the best damn person in the country, the one who's best at balancing the current needs with long term stability and sustainability (the Webster definition version), the best leader, negotiator, the most even keeled and least likely to act on emotion.

 

[James Riley]

I don't hate Hillary for being who she is, other than being the ultimate establishment player. Other than that, she's just another flawed person. It's the establishment I hate. And she is classic establishment. Classic.

I'd love to see her Wall Street speech transcripts, but more than that that, I'd like to see/hear the videos. And more than that, I'd love to have audio/video of all the behind-the-scenes wink, wink, nod, nod, know-what-I-mean, know-what-I-mean meetings that she had with them and the military industrial complex representatives.

Before we extricate ourselves from the establishment, we need a 100 year plan that all reasonable people can agree upon. Nobody wants to make sacrifices without a desirable goal and right now our only goal is seems to be immediate gratification or one-upsmanship or power or money. If you can't go for the last three, you go for or dream about the first. Sad, really. If man was not the measure of all things, he's sure made himself that way now.

 

[James Riley]

Under a, lets say, four party system, you could have the leader of the country be voted in by only a small fraction of the population (maybe 20%) and that small fraction could be on the extreme side of either end of the political spectrum, and every four years it could swing wildly from one end to the other.

That is not the case with run-off elections.

 

[2ski]

If you don't understand the Hillary hate, you haven't been paying attention to the news. She and her husband are corrupt and have become rich by doing nothing but being politicians. Do you think they acquired their hundreds of millions of dollars honestly?

What about Hillary's illegal email server she used while she was Secretary of State? Does it bother you that she put our national security at great risk by her recklessness? If it were anyone else who did that, they would be in prison right now.

If she becomes president our country will still be at great risk due to her illegal email server. How many countries hacked into that email server and now have the ability to blackmail Hillary if she becomes president?

I'm truly convinced that people wouldn't hate a man for the exact same things, as much as they hate her. Just my opinion, but it comes from how badly she was hated as a first lady. Because she wasn't a first lady that only taught kidz ta reed gud. I'll bet her approval rating as a first lady was way lower than Bill's as the POTUS..at the same time.

Look, I'm not saying she'll be great as POTUS. A Trump presidency scares the you know what out of me.

 

[2ski]

I'll throw a bomb out there and support the two party system. Fundamentally it's more stable than a multi party system. It generally forces candidates and platform to the middle in order to get 50-ish percent of the voters votes. Under a, lets say, four party system, you could have the leader of the country be voted in by only a small fraction of the population (maybe 20%) and that small fraction could be on the extreme side of either end of the political spectrum, and every four years it could swing wildly from one end to the other. No thanks, I prefer the smallest swings possible, even if that means no who thinks like me is ever elected. A little more introspection by more people and fewer people would think they have all the answers and we might actually get to solving some problems.

Yep. That is my thought as well. See France for this kind of system.

I was in a poli sci class with a prof that was from England and he was spouting about the screwed up nature of the two-part system. I brought up the fact that it was more stable. His argument was that change happened slower. Both are valid.